Drago2005-02-23 23:23:12
The Empress was only because there was no way in hell I was going to bother trying to fight you in your demesne.
It worked as well, but I got told you got dc so that burst my bubble about managing to kill someone with wrack
It worked as well, but I got told you got dc so that burst my bubble about managing to kill someone with wrack
Gregori2005-02-23 23:55:47
Heh ya I was pissed. Flow to you, raise cudgel to bring you upto me. messed up my reject reflex so it just did "reject d" *grumble*. You go down, raise cudgel again, dc. come back half way across the world and dead.
Ethelon2005-02-24 01:30:43
Darkseed can be done without being in the trees. All you have to be is in a forest location. Sap and Treebane are the only two skills that require the target to be in the trees. Don't forget, your Stag throws the target into the trees also, so you have three ways to get someone in the trees.
Narsrim2005-02-24 20:17:53
I find the Hartstone demesne to be more annoying than deadly (with the exception of sap which is my -favorite- ability of any class just because it can take down almost anyone if setup correctly). With that said, I see a lot of truth in Gregori's posts. Treebane and Treelife are not that difficult to circumvent. Furthermore, shielding at -any- point will stop all attempts to move you. Thus, the Hartstone has to climb out of trees, nullify, get you sucked back up into trees, climb up into trees, cling, and attack, etc.
The afflictions are easy to cure. Paralyze, while annoying, becomes easier and easier to handle as you learn discipline to the point where it goes from being top notch to mediocre at best. Invest in a levitation enchantment and treebane will suddenly be less deadly. The list goes on.
As for the Aquamancer current thing, the solution is icewalls.
The afflictions are easy to cure. Paralyze, while annoying, becomes easier and easier to handle as you learn discipline to the point where it goes from being top notch to mediocre at best. Invest in a levitation enchantment and treebane will suddenly be less deadly. The list goes on.
As for the Aquamancer current thing, the solution is icewalls.
Geb2005-02-24 20:54:18
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Feb 24 2005, 09:17 PM)
As for the Aquamancer current thing, the solution is icewalls.
58968
Yep, I end up using icewalls myself. I prefer to have my enemies in the same room with me.
Shiri2005-02-24 22:58:50
QUOTE(Ethelon @ Feb 24 2005, 02:30 AM)
Don't forget, your Stag throws the target into the trees also, so you have three ways to get someone in the trees.
58426
Unless this has changed from when Athana tested it on me, it only does that if the attack-ee is on balance, so the chances of it happening are next to squat.
Silvanus2005-02-24 23:02:38
Then the chances of someone stepping down from the trees right away is next to squat.
Ceres2005-02-24 23:04:39
Hehehe. You got 'em there.
Silvanus2005-02-24 23:06:26
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Feb 24 2005, 02:17 PM)
As for the Aquamancer current thing, the solution is icewalls.
58968
Yes, the solution is to icewall ourselves into an Aquamancer's demesne, with the Aquamancer in the room, brilliant Narsrim, absolutely brilliant. I sometimes wonder how you survive fighting.
Daevos2005-02-25 00:02:48
QUOTE(geb @ Feb 23 2005, 01:05 AM)
If you did not think we had the worst demesne before all of the changes, then you seriously lacked an objective opinion. The demesne back then gave no damage unless the person was flying/in the trees and lacked levitation. Since we did not have needlerain back then, levitation up meant that the demesne gave no damage at all. Back then, you were unkillable by a mage in and out of his demesne. Even though you state that being invincible is not your goal, invincibility against a single mage seems to be where you would like things to return.
If you thought my suggestions were over the top, I guess you must not have really fought well in other IRE games. None of my suggestions were any more powerful than what are possessed by classes in the other games.
1. The single sling speed suggestion was no faster than a Shaman using quick curse, yet a shaman can also obscure what curses he is giving.
2. The double sling speed was no faster than an Apostate using their double evil eye. Both of those classes did not have the extra hindrance of using commodities and power to accomplish their afflictions.
3. I only asked that single sling allow for illusions being used before or after the sling is done, like snakes in Achaea.
4. The turtle costing 10-power back then to summon made it not prudent to summon one. If the turtle were able to give the 3 afflictions I put on the list, it would have made it worth the 10 power. Now the turtle only costs 1 power to summon on the water plane, so it is fine the way it is.
5. Some synergy between a few of the skills would have given a bit of damage to the demesne, when the demesne lacked any. Sipping fire would easily block that synergy, an ability open to everyone.
I ask you again, how many times have you been defeated by a single mage after the demesne changes? Before the Demesne changes, you were unbeatable one on one against a mage (once you knew how to deal with the minor hindrances of demesnes back then). Now you might actually die if you come against a lone mage in his/her demesne.
The real funny part is that I am in no way as tanky as you are. Yet, I seem to not have been as bothered by demesnes as you are. On the otherhand, I recognize that I have the possibility to die when walking in the demesne of another. I don’t walk in with the full expectation that I will dominate my opponent in his/her own area of influence. I also recognize that a guardian or warrior catching me out of my demesne puts me at a great disadvantage too. I am able to put up some demesne effects, but some of the others can only be created in a melded room. So, I practice as much as possible fighting outside of a demesne, because I know that I am rarely in one when a fight breaks out.
If you thought my suggestions were over the top, I guess you must not have really fought well in other IRE games. None of my suggestions were any more powerful than what are possessed by classes in the other games.
1. The single sling speed suggestion was no faster than a Shaman using quick curse, yet a shaman can also obscure what curses he is giving.
2. The double sling speed was no faster than an Apostate using their double evil eye. Both of those classes did not have the extra hindrance of using commodities and power to accomplish their afflictions.
3. I only asked that single sling allow for illusions being used before or after the sling is done, like snakes in Achaea.
4. The turtle costing 10-power back then to summon made it not prudent to summon one. If the turtle were able to give the 3 afflictions I put on the list, it would have made it worth the 10 power. Now the turtle only costs 1 power to summon on the water plane, so it is fine the way it is.
5. Some synergy between a few of the skills would have given a bit of damage to the demesne, when the demesne lacked any. Sipping fire would easily block that synergy, an ability open to everyone.
I ask you again, how many times have you been defeated by a single mage after the demesne changes? Before the Demesne changes, you were unbeatable one on one against a mage (once you knew how to deal with the minor hindrances of demesnes back then). Now you might actually die if you come against a lone mage in his/her demesne.
The real funny part is that I am in no way as tanky as you are. Yet, I seem to not have been as bothered by demesnes as you are. On the otherhand, I recognize that I have the possibility to die when walking in the demesne of another. I don’t walk in with the full expectation that I will dominate my opponent in his/her own area of influence. I also recognize that a guardian or warrior catching me out of my demesne puts me at a great disadvantage too. I am able to put up some demesne effects, but some of the others can only be created in a melded room. So, I practice as much as possible fighting outside of a demesne, because I know that I am rarely in one when a fight breaks out.
57546
Before I start my belated reply I do have one question for you, Geb. List every change that has been made to the Aquamancer demense. I'm curious since you seem to be implying that it was totally worthless, and worst than the Geomancer demense which only knocked people down and did a bit extra damage, though not enough to make up for the fact that the Aquamancer staff attack was superior and the Imperial Merian race was also superior for a mage.
My reasons for wanting needlerain not to strip waterbreathe and waterwalk are twofold. For one, it offers a unfair advantage to aquamancers in underwater combat, since it passively strips the two defenses that a person needs to survive there. Two, is because they are both enchantment defenses and thus only have a certain amount of uses. so they shouldnt be passively stripped. I also would prefer if levitation was a drink instead of a enchantment.
I also want the Magic skillset to be worth the 300 credits it cost to transcend it, since it was supposed to be a combination of Constitution, Thermology, Frost and Galvanism.
If you thought your suggestions werent over the top when combined with your demense and phantoms, I guess your sense of balance is weaker than I first thought.
And stop assuming that you know me, its getting really annoying especially since your assumptions about me are wrong.
Geb2005-02-25 00:07:24
QUOTE(Daevos @ Feb 25 2005, 01:02 AM)
Before I start my belated reply I do have one question for you, Geb. List every change that has been made to the Aquamancer demense. I'm curious since you seem to be implying that it was totally worthless, and worst than the Geomancer demense which only knocked people down and did a bit extra damage, though not enough to make up for the fact that the Aquamancer staff attack was superior and the Imperial Merian race was also superior for a mage.
My reasons for wanting needlerain not to strip waterbreathe and waterwalk are twofold. For one, it offers a unfair advantage to aquamancers in underwater combat, since it passively strips the two defenses that a person needs to survive there. Two, is because they are both enchantment defenses and thus only have a certain amount of uses. so they shouldnt be passively stripped. I also would prefer if levitation was a drink instead of a enchantment.
I also want the Magic skillset to be worth the 300 credits it cost to transcend it, since it was supposed to be a combination of Constitution, Thermology, Frost and Galvanism.
If you thought your suggestions werent over the top when combined with your demense and phantoms, I guess your sense of balance is weaker than I first thought.
And stop assuming that you know me, its getting really annoying especially since your assumptions are wrong.
My reasons for wanting needlerain not to strip waterbreathe and waterwalk are twofold. For one, it offers a unfair advantage to aquamancers in underwater combat, since it passively strips the two defenses that a person needs to survive there. Two, is because they are both enchantment defenses and thus only have a certain amount of uses. so they shouldnt be passively stripped. I also would prefer if levitation was a drink instead of a enchantment.
I also want the Magic skillset to be worth the 300 credits it cost to transcend it, since it was supposed to be a combination of Constitution, Thermology, Frost and Galvanism.
If you thought your suggestions werent over the top when combined with your demense and phantoms, I guess your sense of balance is weaker than I first thought.
And stop assuming that you know me, its getting really annoying especially since your assumptions are wrong.
59179
What? Have you even read what I said? I said once the changes were made, I stopped asking for any of the things I had on my list. I seriously think you are not paying attention to what I write, or you just lack any sort of reading comprehension. If the former is true, please go back and read what I have posted before. If it is the latter, well I can't help you with that.
Daevos2005-02-25 00:20:04
You enjoy slinging insults, dont you?
But I'll summarize that post as I read it. Its basically said that all your suggestions were fair and balanced then, and I am basically a unskilled fighter with no real fighting experience who seeks only to degrade any skills that give me the slightest trouble, since I obviously cant learn from my mistakes. Also I seek to become a unstoppable killing machine, not through any hard work of my own but only through Divine assistance. And yes, I bastardized your post, but thats the gist of it.
Now answer my question, name every change that turned the Aquamancer demense from the worst(in your opinion) to the best(in my opinion).
But I'll summarize that post as I read it. Its basically said that all your suggestions were fair and balanced then, and I am basically a unskilled fighter with no real fighting experience who seeks only to degrade any skills that give me the slightest trouble, since I obviously cant learn from my mistakes. Also I seek to become a unstoppable killing machine, not through any hard work of my own but only through Divine assistance. And yes, I bastardized your post, but thats the gist of it.
Now answer my question, name every change that turned the Aquamancer demense from the worst(in your opinion) to the best(in my opinion).
Unknown2005-02-25 00:21:12
Is Geomancer demesne more powerful than Aquamancer demesne? No. Is it more powerful than Hartstone demesne? LAWL i can't believe i said that
Shiri2005-02-25 00:39:29
QUOTE(Silvanus @ Feb 25 2005, 12:02 AM)
Then the chances of someone stepping down from the trees right away is next to squat.
59094
...*think* Well, okay, I'll assume that you lose eq when being flung up, since I don't remember that part. But if it's not going to happen, then who cares what the odds of instantly recovering are?
Silvanus2005-02-25 00:42:41
No you don't, but if you say that it is very rare for a stag to throw someone into trees, then its very rare that someone will be able to step right down after being thrown into the trees, which was used as a defense.
Geb2005-02-25 01:06:13
QUOTE(Daevos @ Feb 25 2005, 01:20 AM)
You enjoy slinging insults, dont you?
But I'll summarize that post as I read it. Its basically said that all your suggestions were fair and balanced then, and I am basically a unskilled fighter with no real fighting experience who seeks only to degrade any skills that give me the slightest trouble, since I obviously cant learn from my mistakes. Also I seek to become a unstoppable killing machine, not through any hard work of my own but only through Divine assistance. And yes, I bastardized your post, but thats the gist of it.
Now answer my question, what was every change that turned the Aquamancer demense from the worst(in your opinion) to the best(in my opinion)?
But I'll summarize that post as I read it. Its basically said that all your suggestions were fair and balanced then, and I am basically a unskilled fighter with no real fighting experience who seeks only to degrade any skills that give me the slightest trouble, since I obviously cant learn from my mistakes. Also I seek to become a unstoppable killing machine, not through any hard work of my own but only through Divine assistance. And yes, I bastardized your post, but thats the gist of it.
Now answer my question, what was every change that turned the Aquamancer demense from the worst(in your opinion) to the best(in my opinion)?
59189
Here you go:
1. Tsunami knocking prone and giving asphyxiation damage.
2. Jellies upgraded to give damage along with the stun.
3. Needlerain stripping some elemental defenses, so that Typhoon would actually do something to a person if they were in the trees or flying. Also made it so people with waterwalking could not just waltz in and out of the rooms off a deluged demesne. Does not seem to strip the defense against fire, but that is no biggie.
4. Fuse increasing the viability of runes and demesnes by giving periodic afflictions. Using cen or gyfu has pretty darn good synergy with icefloe, jellies, and tsunami. Being paralyzed or stupid when knocked prone and stunned will increase the chance the person will not stand up immediately. That in turn will lower their offensive output, and allow for the mage to concentrate more on offensive tactics (more afflictions, staff damage, etc…)
5. Phantoms increased the damage output of mages along with the bonus of binding the afflicted person periodically (Normally a person is may be bound 2 times out of a phantoms period). That in itself also adds to the strength of a demesne, by pilling on more times the person can be stunned (Hallucinations) or restrained.
6. All demesne effects being speeded up to go on a cycle of 10 seconds.
All of the changes generating a synergistic effect with each other, making the demesne stronger and more able to augment whatever tactics an aquamancer my decide to use. In the end it comes down to direct damage for aquamancers. The changes to the demesne effects better enabled an aquamancer to accomplish what is needed to bring enough damage to the field.
Ok, this is the end of my discourse with you Daevos. You fail to realize that I agreed with you on most of the points you put forward, but not on the ones that would only help a few like yourself (Myself included, since I am Omni-Trans). You did not even notice that I disagreed on waterwalking part, not the Waterbreathing portion. I could care less if Waterbreathing is protected from Needlerain; I have other means to get around that. You do know that some other classes could strip waterbreathing too? I also stated that lowering elemental damage could best be accomplished via fixing tailoring resistances. Lowering elemental damage via magic would only help the few. Lowering it via tailoring resistances would help the many. This all coming from me, a guy who is Omni-Trans his skills.
* I still do not feel the Aquamancer demesne is the best one. I just voted that over all I felt the Aquamancers are best off, and Geomancers at the bottom. My opinion on the position of Geomancers has changed since their upgrades, and now I feel the Serenguard need the most help.
Terenas2005-02-25 01:13:38
QUOTE(geb @ Feb 25 2005, 01:06 AM)
My opinion on the position of Geomancers has changed since their upgrades, and now I feel the Serenguard need the most help.
59225
Amen!
Daevos2005-02-25 01:19:47
Just preferred to argue the points of contention, though I did notice that you agreed with ideas 1-9. Also you didnt make it clear that you agreed that needlerain shouldnt strip waterbreathe, I still dont think it should strip waterwalk either though. And yes, other classes can strip waterbreathe, but not passively. I could strip it as well, if I was so inclined.
I also have problems with your argument that Magic should be useless since it would only benefit the people that invest enough in Lusternia to be able to trans it. Should Resilience also be weakened, and that armour be given a greater weight towards physical defense. And what about Combat, dont the people who trans that have a unfair advantage too.
I also have problems with your argument that Magic should be useless since it would only benefit the people that invest enough in Lusternia to be able to trans it. Should Resilience also be weakened, and that armour be given a greater weight towards physical defense. And what about Combat, dont the people who trans that have a unfair advantage too.
Narsrim2005-02-25 07:27:04
QUOTE(Silvanus @ Feb 24 2005, 07:06 PM)
Yes, the solution is to icewall ourselves into an Aquamancer's demesne, with the Aquamancer in the room, brilliant Narsrim, absolutely brilliant. I sometimes wonder how you survive fighting.
59100
I'm sorry you cannot fight. When I icewall myself in, I then proceed to kill.
Yrael2005-02-26 01:41:46
QUOTE(Amaru @ Feb 22 2005, 07:25 AM)
The rubble/briar walls tree flinging/stripping waterwalk stunning is just SO dumb. It's totally restrictive, to the level vibes were in Achaea, except up to 400 damn rooms big. Seriously, whoever designed this needs to put the crack DOWN and sort it out. Anyone could tell you, the way to a better PKing world is to DOWNGRADE EQUALISE passive effects and UPGRADE EQUALISE individual abilities. Please.
56605
Hee. I get amusing images. All the gods sitting around a table, lines of cocaine infront of them, Buho chained in the corner.
They snort crack, have some ideas, then whip Buho while he codes. Entertaining.