Aye, and at least for the taint, it is unnatural change.

For some reason I've always considered change as a form of destruction, the destruction of what currently was. Also have always linked change with one of it's greatest manifestations: revolution. A revolution surely causes massive change and often brings great destruction. The Taint offers an revolution of what currently was. Therefore you could say that their aim is to destroy the rule of the Light and now make the Taint the dominant factor of the Basin.

But I really don't view anything in here as good and evil. I liked it how we were functioning, no realy city choosing the ideology of evil/good, and simply being judged by their actions. Magnagora warring against Serenwilde=evil, from a Seren perspective. Magnagora helping out the fae girl=good. Celest killing faes=evil. Celest making a garden in their city=good . But more than good or evil, I think that the terms that are more applicable in Lusternia is right/wrong.

To someone who worships nature, an unnatural change is destruction. Just like every change is some form of destruction to someone else. However the taint is associated with disease and destruction as following quote of the geomancer help file:
earth, a Tainted plane that has been become associated with disease and
destruction.

Both Right/wrong and Good/evil are subject to the beholder I think.

I say evil cause I always associated dominance to evil, it's my Aetolian malformation. And ofcourse the fact that I'm a member of New Celest has something to do with it. I never said Celest was good, I said they have a love for life (and especially our own life).

Change through Elemental and Cosmic means are just as "unnatural" as a change done by the Taint. The soulless are part of creation.

If you mean something that destroys natural growth, or any part of the cycles of Nature, then yes. You are quite right.

If you narrow yourself to the Basin's primordial times before the Light was discovered, you could consider the Nature element to be the only existing thing around... with a not so well-defined intervention of the Ethereal(Spirit world) and the Elemental. Once the Elemental was discovered and the Light, you could consider that those adherents of the Light chose to make the Light the dominant factor. Just remember how Celest became the greatest empire, in many cases "replacing" Nature. Then came the Taint fighting to get it's share out of all this, trying to counter the Light.

So, to be specific, you can say that the Light and Taint are both invaders of the Basin, with both of them trying to be the dominant influence in the Basin, even at cost of Nature. So, Nature is included there, you could consider that Nature may hate the sophistication of the Light/Taint and therefore may race to oppose them.

Um, nature hates the sophistication of a philosophy and a corrupting magic? Why?

Have you even READ the histories?

Elemtnal and Cosmic planes are FOREIGN to the Basin. If I played a nature person, I would hate all aspects of elemental and cosmic manifistations as they go against the great nature spirits, and pollute the world.

there is nothing Natural about Celestia.

Well, maybe because the Light/Taint aren't mixable with Nature? Because they bring into what was the original order of things changes that weren't dictated by the primordial force (Nature)? Light and Taint are of a completely different origin than "Nature", they bring with themselves completely different precepts and enact change into Nature. To put it short, and if you bothered to read my post... Taint/Light are gradually phasing out Nature.

Also, at the top of this, if you don't consider Nature's immaterial presence on the Basin being diminished by cosmic Light/Taint, those who adhere to the Light and Taint instead of at the very least living on the same order of things... bring their own order and choose to modify the very face of what once was and shaping it to whatever satisfies or complement their ideologies: cities and expansion at the very cost of what is natural bringing with it an increase dependance of artificiality.

*sigh*

Look, Ethereal was foreign to the basin for most of the histories until recently. Does that make it evil and anti-Life?

Just because you generated an ooc philosophy that involves various planes being unnatural and not, doesn't mean everyone else has to follow it. I can respect your opinion but still disagree. It doesn't mean I haven't given this any thought, nor read the histories.

Celestia itself isn't unnatural. It's just a plane of existence. If people start wielding Celestial powers that make living creatures into undead horrors that contravene the laws of nature, then sure, they will be hated by the worshippers of Nature. The supernals and their teachings I consider evil and revolting from a Serenwilde viewpoint because they corrupt and enslave the fae spirits (obviously only from my view). But the godforsaken plane itself isn't a threat to nature. Wielding cosmic threads that ACTUALLY EXIST isn't a threat to nature unless they are used against the cycles of nature.

Edited because I was referring to Daganev's post.

Then how is the Taint different?

And I don't see how Ethereal was foreign? The powers of ehtereal where always used, but only recently have they been made stronger and the link more direct.

People were using the Ethereal to heal the basin for what appears to be generations before the first aquamancer ever found Cosmic plane.

I will make one correction, I should not lump elemental and Cosmic things together. I was just putting them in as "city" which does nothing but destroy natural lands. But from the Ethereal point of view there is no difference between Celestia and Nil that isn't cosmetic or political.

Ethereal wasn't foreign to Prime, ever, and the Elemental had a direct link to Prime too. But the Elementals are purifications of the elements found on Prime. Ethereal has always been surrounding prime, just that the people of prime hadn't perceived it, both have been closely knit... Kiakoda had always had knowledge of Ethereal, she was probably the first to perceive them.

Edit: Celestia is a realm entirely comprised of Light. You won't find a organic trees, organic animals, just a complete deviation from the primordial to a more refined state. Call Cosmic, pure energy and only energy, a complete deviaton from the Primordial Nature. Light wishes to turn things to be exactly as it, therefore a deviation of their original "natural" state.

The Ethereal was completely unknown to mortals at least until after the Divine Wars when Ellindel asked the fae to heal the forests. The next event was the healing of the seas by the discovery of the Elemental planes. How can you use that as justification that Ethereal is all cute and happy with Nature, but Elemental planes are die-hard toxic enemies of it? Or that the Ethereal plane was always known but Elemental was foreign?

Next time please read my whole post.. I made a "correction"

And Desdemona has argued it better than me, but is making the same point.

Elryn, read Help Faethorn. Fae are minor spirits of Nature, they are the of the same nature as the life force that emmanates from every being... Ethereal is 100% connected to Prime... Kiakoda was the first mortal to use it, and every other wiccan/druid somehow connected to Ethereal even if they hadn't knowledged of it until the fae manifested themselves to Ellindel.

Well, I wasn't sure you were actually saying that. So Ethereal and Elemental planes are perfectly natural and in harmony with the worshippers of Nature, but its just Celestia and Nil that are evil and bad?

Um, what point are you trying to make here? I was a Wiccan for a long time, Desdemona... I do know who the fae are.

yep. Cosmic and Nature don't mix. The tainted Fae event kinda proved that.

Damn those histories, eh?

Edit: And as I've said before, the event proved you couldn't mix the necromancers tainted cosmic magics with the nature magick inherent in the fae. This whole plane theory is a bit more of a stretch.

Life is not Nature... sorry.

Unless you consider the soulless as part of nature.