More likely? That's a way of putting it I guess. How about those who don't have zero chance?



I'll admit I've never seen anyone being directly punished for refusing to join one. And having hopped through pretty much every guild except Paladins *cough* on alts, though I was still in Moondancers the longest, I just might be attributing one guild's actions to another too. I thought I remember hearing demands to flow to form a coven. Not quite as "insistent" as Magnagoran demands, but still demands nonetheless.

I've been a little snappy at people sometimes but I never have nor do I intend to punish someone who fails to come to a support coven.

Oh for...

There was one question at the start (see, questions have ? at the end so you can tell they're questions, go back and look at the quoted material, there was only one ? in it). I didn't remove that question and should have, but it was clear from the context of the quoted material and my response that the question wasn't really part of it (as you so keenly observed, I didn't answer it).

Please, flame me some more for not editing the quoted material enough. It makes you such a big man.

That's because it doesn't happen.



People get stressed when someone has died and there is only a short amount of time to resurrect their fallen friend. That people do tend to be demanding and grumpy about the coven "requests" when there aren't many people around is true and it is something we're trying to proactively address (and fix), but we're not even considering punishment or ostracizing as an "incentive".

It is also true that people tend to be disappointed when others don't respond rapidly to the requests. I'm not sure that's inappropriate or unreasonable.

Sure it's reasonable. I even feel bad for those who feel guilty about not being able to get a coven faster (as if it was their fault in the first place) Hmm... maybe the difference is, the Serens asking for flows / ports end up feeling guilty, and the cityfolks end up yelling at everyone angrily.

Edit: Misread the first part

Although Magnagora has threatened to kill citizens who didn't come to help - have you actually ever seen it happen?

About Magnagora and its novice policy:

To my knowledge, in every Magnagoran guild, there is a policy that goes as such:

If Supervisor A or Master A proclaims a call to arms, then all guild members, under jurisdiction from their guild laws, that are required to answer said call to arms, HAS to, unless approved with a guild leader. In all guilds, NOVICES ARE NOT REQUIRED TO ANSWER A CALL TO ARMS, that means that if there was indeed novices forced, that it was against city policy, and most likely dealt with. Other than that, it doesn't happen to my knowledge. I was never forced to answer a call to arms my whole time as a novice there.

On the subject of Magnagora supposedly "forcing" novices onto the front lines, that's complete bull

Every time there's a call to arms, -every- single time I've seen it, there has -always- been "Novices need not come," or a similar thing. If they choose to come, that's their business. We usually tell them they weren't required, or even to completely bugger off, if we realize they're there, but if they're insistant, well, it's their funeral.

As for "having" to defend out of novicehood, that's crap too. There's been many, many cases where I've outright ignored a call, because I didn't feel up to going and dying that exact second. Have I ever been disfavoured, in the city or guild? No. Have I ever been power blocked, by city or guild? No. Have I ever been denied the chance to buy credits from city or guild? No. In fact, I've received several city and guild favours -for- my work. Does the city expect its citizens to defend it? Yes, it does. So should Celest, so should Serenwilde. But do we say "You're coming...OR ELSE!"? No. Now, I admit, it may be different as an Ur'Guard or Nihilist, but mages are very often called on, and I'm apparently one of the better known ones in the city, so you'd -expect- that if there was this rule about -having- to go defend, and I was about, that people would notice if I wasn't there, now wouldn't you? Particularly when, very often, mages are being called for to set up a demesne, to taint, whatever.

In the beginning, yes, there was a lot of crap that went on. It's just the way things work out in the chaos.

Just because you happen to encounter a novice on the field, don't assume that he was forced out there.


And on another side note, can Serenwilde do no better than tossing up rumours when it's pointed out that they have no clue about...well...reality? Really. The only logical reason you don't destroy my arguements (Or the arguements anyone else has made, for that matter) with your own thought out points, on how the theories are inherently flawed, and providing examples to back this up, is that you've absolutely no ground to stand on, and you know it. Thus, you toss up a web of misdirection and hearsay in an attempt to distract and confuse people from the point being made.

I must say, you're not very good at it. Or maybe I just retain the ability to stay on topic. I dunno, one of the two.

Oh Ixchilgal, back in beta Silvanus and myself both made that threat to get people to come - but never once did we actually act up on it, and from what I remember it hasn't been threatened since then.

I have to congratulate you people for completely and utterly hijacking and derailing the topic. It was orignally posted to show a group of Mag raiding the Moondancer's gh and slaying a bunch of non-combatants then ran when guards were brought in. Everyone has established that fact.

Tuek and Narsrim have repeatedly raided Ankrag to get the miners back because those miners were -taken- from Serenwilde during the war, and when the war ended, they remained in the hands of Mag instead of being returned to SW. Those raids were in the best interest of the commune and they have been communefavored for those since they were done to benefit SW.

Ever since the war ended, I haven't recall ever seeing people asking on SW to form up and attacking Mag or its villages, or Nil, it was always done in private, and therefore are personal drives, not communal. The fact that SW's leaders haven't been communefavoring Narsrim or Tuek for stealing from Mag's shop or killing Gorgulu proves that SW's leaders did not publicly approve of their actions or complimented them on it. Those raids were -not- in the best interests of the commune as they were in no way benefiting SW.

I have to seriously ask what did the Mags that raided the Moondancer's Tower accomplished for Mag as a whole? I'm leaning towards nothing on this since you guys didn't steal back miners, didn't steal any comms or supplies, merely slaughtered and fled. Therefore it would seem to be logical that those raids were not in the name of Mag but rather due to personal motives. This is akin to Tuek robbing Mag's shop, or Narsrim slaying Gorgulu, they were personal desires and motives, so leave Magnagora and Serenwilde as a whole out of your personal conflicts.

Here here!

Llexyn asked Merloch, (now mind you, Llexyn is one of the individuals who just assaulted the Tower)

"There are two members of the Iron Council present, do you wish to discuss Serenwilde withdrawing from the affairs between Magnagora and Celest and returning to a more neutral position?"

Wording paraphrased, but that was the jist of it. Merloch, as known, declined.

I'll admit I haven't read the better half of this thread, because I assume its all the same stuff stated over and over again. That said, here's my take on it:

Who cares? If someone wants to raid a guildhall, go right ahead, you aren't breaking some giant rule. Why spend all this time arguing about it? Back in Achaea, when the Jester's guildhall got raided (which happend rather frequently) we didn't (don't) run to the forums and scream "OMG HAX!!" If Magnagorans want to raid the moondancer GH, wether they have a valid reason or not, go ahead and do it, it just might lead to interesting conflict (or a forum war of people saying the same irrelevant crap over and over).

It's people arguing IC nuances in an OOC manner because it makes their characters life a little harder. I really question the validity of having these forums at all when things like this come up.

Obviously, Narsrim, you suffer from a distinct lack of reading comprehension.

DRAGO now thinks that Serenwilde supports Narsrim and Tuek. Not me.

Magnagora has never forced a novice to take the field in a fight. Any novices that are there, are there because they escaped our attention in trying to organise the group.

Yes, we 'force' people to help us defend our villages/Nil and, occaisionally, we 'force' people to come along and raid Celestia or, as with the Tainted Fae event, Ethereal Plane.

Ignoring that "all people are to report" command is easy enough, if its something you really don't want to do.

Here! Here!

Thats not what I'm arguing about....

I'm arguing about people saying on an OOC board that the world forces them to act a certain way, and trying to remove themselves from being labeled a "griefer"

The game world does not force you in any direction, and using the oocness of the board to try to convince people that your not being a griefer, when people are feeling much grief is quite (insert negetive adjective here)

I do know of two citizens who were -extremely- upset (I heard they actually broke down into tears) because they were utterly forced into the field (and then got slaughtered). Obviously, they didn't want to push their luck...

We have never threatened citizens to come attack, only to defend.

Every Magnagoran should defend their city, and their planes, to a lesser extent the villages in the influence. If I were in Celest, I'd expect every citizen there to defend the city/planes, lesser extent villages, and same thing with Serenwilde.

Maybe every place should learn to be like Mhaldor, and make it an order a rule to aid the city when under attack, and encourage the population to participate on the offensive with acknowledgement.