Ok, your either twisted, or I don't know what.

Tuek and Narsrim are moondancers. Tuek being your champion.

what about this don't you understand?

It really doesn't matter what you people say on your own channel about support or not. The moondancers did not stop them from these activities, they have not punished them sufficently, so a few people fought back the only way they knew how, and attacked narsrim's and Tuek's home.

its really not that complicated. Nor "pushing" anybody in any direction they weren't allready well planted in.

And now, someone gets to the heart of why I am, and was, pissed off.

Also, No novices where harmed or attacked. I don't know why you keep on bringing up novices? Are you part of some ooc political manipulation machine?

I'm twisted? And part of a ooc political campaign to damage Magnagora?

... come on

Look, all I'm saying is that this will quieten any voices saying Serenwilde shouldn't aid Celest, and it will make sure that every Serenwilder has a strong reason to take every opportunity to oppose Magnagora. Whatever the raiding party's reasons were, it doesn't really change that.

Maybe I'm exaggerating, but I'm just going by how my character will react when he finds out. You know we spent about two days in sanctification rituals when a Serenwilder killed a single person in the Tower?

Edit: And I only mentioned the novice once, because it was brought up earlier in this thread. Maybe both parties were wrong. It doesn't really matter, Yrael had the maturity to apologise to the novice, and hopefully it will be swiftly forgotten.

Look at it this way.
Normally, when somebody does something that "messes up the politics" they get introuble for it.

the only poeple who have really been of any consequence from magnagora's point of view has been Narsrim and Tuek. They always seem to be invovled and leading the attack, no matter who is following them.

If the moondancers EVER had any possiblity that they would not attack Magangora whenever possible, they would have done SOMETHING to reduce the actions of Narsrim and Tuek.

Attacking the moondancer guildhall should be a wake up call to anyone in the guild who was not previously aware that your guild has been the only ones really attacking Magnagora. The fact that you instantly try to see this as a reaons to push serenwilde and celest closer together makes me question your motives.

You can say its not you all you want, but the only people Magnagora sees is Serenwilders being a pain in the rear.

Daganev, please refer to page one. Several Moondacers were attacked while teaching a novice, who burrowed below and that was the end of that. The Moondancers were quite concerned as he was rather new, and we could not get in contact with him afterwards. They don't always remember how to get out, doncha know.

Now, the Moondancers being attacked in their own -Guildhall- while teaching -novices- is quite a different scenario than Narsrim and Tuek attacking villages under Magnagoran influence, or anything else you say they do.

And no, it is not really that complicated at all. I am unsure where the confusion lies. The only thing I am confused about is why would we punish Narsrim or Tuek. Strange. They don't make attacks the same way Yrael, Murphy, Llexyn and crew have. And to the best of my knowledge, do not kill non-combatants.

I never knew dwarves were combatants.

All the log shows is deathsight, it shows nothing of who is doing what or who attacked who.


I really don't see the difference between killing Ladantine, Gorgulu, or dwarves, and tainting a guildhall and killing those who harbor the people who kill ladantine, the wyrm, gorgulu and dwarves.

I've died plenty of times just trying to stop them from hurting those that are part of the city. I can't remember the last time I was invovled in anything offensive.

We merely rescue dwarves that were forcibly made to be undead. Daganev, you do realize, Magnagora has to raid first in order for the dwarves to even get there?

No. There have always been undead dwarves in those mines.

Ummm.. No Daganev, the undead dwarves are created solely through killing live ones, and bringing them to the slave masters.

Magnagora once owned all mines and dwarves, no raiding was done.

A dwarf does not have to be killed to become dead. Since the first person stepped out of the portal of fates, there has been an undead dwarf in the mines.

And i really don't see how "rescuing" someone is any different. You can spin all you want. yrael was "rescuing" your guildhall from the weakness that is non-taintedness. He was merely empowering it.

Edit: Besides, your forcing them to be removed of thier undead status. Many people, such as Dagnev prefer to be undead. Have you asked these dwarves thier opinion?

Well, Serenwilde has always been opposed to Magnagora according to the histories. That we didn't outguild the two people reviving undead creatures for the benefit of the commune can't be -that- hard to believe. I'd like to know the RP behind a decision to punish a Moondancer for fighting the Taint.

Although it may not have been obvious to outsiders, after the war ended, I thought any conflict has been relatively confined to the villages, with a few exceptions on both sides - up until recently. Both sides (and I cringe at the implication there) have been growing more aggressive towards each other, but this took it to a whole different level.

It will be a wake up call alright. It's going to be fun being a Serenwilder who says Celest is just as bad as Magnagora after this.

And just to be clear, I don't have some ulterior motive to push Serenwilde and Celest together. In fact, I thought I had been quite vocal about avoiding such a thing.

If you think Magnagora has been agressive, I would consider yourself lucky on not seeing what it means when Magnagora is agressive.

Did I say they should be outguilded? No, the proper responce would be for the leadership to say, "look, we don't need to be so agressive right now, just stay on defence" Just like the leadership of Magangora told its population through most of this.

According to the histories, Serenwilde has been more against Celest than magnagora. Serenwilde doesn't really care about the histories all that much for some reason.

They certainly rejoice when they are about to be reborn in Southgard or Rockholm. Would you like a log?

I'm not sure how on earth you get that, but alright. I think my part in this particular discussion has run its course.

Its been stated my Merloch quite a few times that the histories are pretty much irrelavent to the way he does things. He 'struggles' with them.

I object to the constant use of the words 'pushed' and 'forced' and then the constant arguments of 'its not us, its just a few individuals' while the same time declaring holy war on organizations because of the actions of a 'few individuals'

Its one thing to be a hyprocrit in game, another on the forums.

Daganev, I realise personal attacks are not permitted so I will refrain from calling you an idiot.

Narsrim holds one position in the Serenwilde. Security in the Moondancers. He has no position in the Commune other than a member of its army, which many have.

Tuek is Champion of the Moondancers, he holds no position in the Commune other than a member of its army.

Llexyn, on the other hand is a member of the Iron Council. Which politically speaking is a representation of Magnagora.

If a common citizen performs an act, that is the voice of a common citizen. If someone in leadership performs an act, that is the voice of what they represent. This is the main reason I do not go on raids, or engage in anything more than defense.

The fact that a number of you attacked the Moondancer Tower is more an act of war than anything any of you individually have done, or anything Tuek or Narsrim have done, which could have at any time been considered an act of war in itself. However, at no time did they attack a guildhall in Magnagora, and at no time have they had Serenwilde leadership with them. The same cannot be said of any raid or attack by Magnagora.

Excuse me?

Since when was being part of the army not related to the political organization?

Just think on that a momemnt. If a soldier of the U.S army tortures an Iraqi, who gets blamed first? Could you even imagine a General of an army saying "Oh me, invading your country has NOTHING to do with the country I'm from."

The politicans are suppose to control the army, not the other way around.

And Gorgulu is MUCH worse than any tainting on any guildhall.

Are you not aware of everything killing a demon lord does? Then let me explain.
1) Drains 1K power from the CITY
2) Makes all Nihilists lose thier skills related to that demon lord.
3) Corpse is used as a means to attack the shield of said city.
4) Draining of shield destroys means to aquire more power of city, and requires the citizenry to do IMENSE questing.
5) Once shield is destroyed, city is open to NUMEROUS power draining attacks.


If doing one step of raising crow, is worthy of serenwilde to declare war on Magnagora, (which only gives the POTENTIAL to kill Hart) Than I think Actually Killing a Demon Lord is an out right declaration of war.

If the leader of Serenwilde can't control its Army, I suggest finding yourself a suitable replacement.

Have the Magnagoran's realised how pissed off I am that this happened? I doubt it.

I don't know which is worse, the fact this happened or the fact I'm going to have to help deal with the consequences of it. I mean, damn, I thought Stavenn was pk-happy.

If I am a member of the Canadian Army and in peace time fly to a country for whatever reason, and murder someone there. The Canadian Army is not to blame, nor is it blamed.

You said yourself that soldiers get leave now and then. We are not at war currently so the whole army is on leave, their actions do not represent the Army.

Feel free to try again though.