So moondancers are the most restrictive guild, yet the actions of the Champion and Security member constantly raiding a city is ok, but retaliation on the guildhall is somehow an act of war against serenwilde? got it.

why do the forest guilds always get the most corrupt leaders?

It isn't my guild anymore and hasn't been for a while.



Translation: Heaping pile of rules that grow heavier by the day. And yes, if the guild won't let me do whatever I want, the guild therefore sucks... for me and whoever else doesn't agree (and there may be more than you're aware of). Call it a matter of different opinions and beliefs. And hence it is time to leave, yes?

Many of us have been around since the time when Serenwilde was arguing whether or not to have written rules at all. Seems rather ironic when I look back on it. *dredges up ancient history* Speaking of history, I guess you (Gregori) might remember that I was never very happy in the Moondancers to begin with anyway, and thus have a far lower tolerance of restrictions than I would otherwise.

And is it guild philosophy or Merloch's philosophy? I somehow got the idea that it's him coming up with them all, and lots of the guild who can vote agreeing. And of course, if you disagree, you can forget about voting. This may or may not have been the case when the voting first started, but I'd say that it is increasingly moving this way.

How so? If you disagree with the laws of the guild vocally, but still follow them until they are changed, you should face no impediment.

So, what you're saying is that the Guildmaster is creating rules, atmosphere, and guild philosophy, and those who've dedicated themselves enough to the guild to be able to vote, are agreeing with the direction the Guildmaster is taking the guild. Hmm! Imagine that. The Moondancers have some 30 or more voters by this point. It's hardly an elite group. It is also enough voters to adequately judge guild opinion. So far, I see your complaint is that the First High Priest of the Modern Age is shaping the structure and path of the Moondancers. Isn't that what he's supposed to do? Somehow I thought it was.

Let me ask this.

If Narsrim says on CT come on, everyone to the tree follow up we are going raiding

do they come raiding? does Narsrim lead raids and quests against Magnagora and for Serenwilde?

You need need to be an official leader to be a leader

Narsrim does not say that on CT to begin with. So no, Narsrim is not an official leader. Typically people find out Narsrim has raided by him commenting after the fact that he has freed the dwarves.

Without a fixed system of GFs, it's all too easy to favour someone over another. While I was there, I've seen some who help without getting recognition, and others who put in less effort (I won't say no effort, just less), getting more recognition. And yes, I tried recommending, not that it made any difference that I could see.

Edit: And correction, apparently there's the acolyte system that I forgot. Was talking about the old ways. (Am too old, soon to be )

30 voters as opposed to how many members? Last I heard, Moondancers is / was one of the biggest guilds. I wouldn't be surprised if this not-elite group made up just 10% of it.

Thought that was technically the administrator's role. But can't really argue that since we're all influenced by our past IRE experiences, and I'd say yes too. My point being that with the way things are currently going, there'll be no one who'll be able to disagree formally.

Oh, and would like to quote a certain someone (not Shiri, despite the mention of him below) here, but he won't let me

Edit: I guess you can say I'm kinda the rebellious sort too. Doesn't like authority and all. All it takes is knowing rules / laws I don't agree with are there to make me twitchy, whether or not I am actually affected a lot by them, as Shiri knows

So many moondancers reading... *waits to get jumped, at, and *

I honestly think with over 30 voters in the Moondancers, their ratio of voters to active members is probably higher than the same ratio in any other guild in Lusternia. I still stand by my statement that the voting block of the Moondancers is hardly an elite group and growing consistantly.

As far as the Administrator's role, I would say both the Guildmaster and Administrator would have a hand in the shaping and path of the guild, and in the Moondancers they do. Once that path has been shaped, it is the responsibility of the Administrator to see to the day to day aspects of what has been layed out.

Also, I will point out that Moondancers may disagree, and are encouraged to discuss any concerns they have, so long as they do it respectfully. I have never seen someone not be GFd due to disagreeing, in fact, I've seen the opposite. Disagreeing with a policy is different than not following it.

Edit: Consider this thread officially hijacked.

:/ Completely out of character for me, but I'm going to agree with the Magnagorans here for once.
Way I see it, Tuek's a general, he kills (from Magnagora's perspective) innocent undead dwarven miners. Llexyn's a politician for the opposite country, she killed (from our perspective) innocent people. Or, rather, her team did, but you get the point. I don't think the novice should be mentioned, since Yrael really didn't know he was there, and didn't attack him (I think, since he burrowed and all. Which as has been mentioned kinda proves he wasn't a true novice, I doubt he would have known how to use it effectively else, or whatever.)
So, really, it's the same thing.

Ok let's take out the new world politics and look at it from the perspective of what it really is Feudal politics.

If the Captain of the Guard during peace time walks over to the neighbouring kingdom and kills someone, that is not an act of war, it may be something to cause tension in the politics between the two kingdoms but war is not based off of it.

We can liken this to raiding. It has become socially acceptable that raiding is not an act of war no matter who does it. It is annoying and we will fight over it, but we don't throw our respective societies into war over this act.

Now, if one of the Kingdom's leaders, Politicians, or Administrators raids the capital of said society. That is itself a declaration of war by the leadership of the opposing force.

Even in feudal times, raiding of isolated villages by various forces did not cause all out warfare, however the moment an enemy force steps foot in the Capital of the kingdom, you have declared war upon it.

If Llexyn had not been around, this argument would not be as valid, it would have been a few idiots who don't have the foresight to consider their actions before doing something. However, there was a leader of Magnagora involved. Someone who could have said "No, raiding the Serenwilde itself is an act of war." Instead she jumped on the bandwagon and raided herself.

It is not the same thing at all. First of all Tuek is not a General, however Llexyn -is- a member of the top ring of Magnagoran leadership.

It would be really nice to say "Today I am not the Seneschal, so all my actions are of my own will and have no reflection upon the Commune." However, life does not work that way.

For everyone who is complaining about the lack of freedom in the moondancers, lemme put it like this:

The moondancers are equivalent to pagan religion as well as a guild. Religions are not about freedom, they're about adherence to a set of beliefs. As one person put it, "We are the spiritual leaders of serenwilde, we are priests, the liasions to the fae, protectors of the ethereal, guided by the great spirits."

Thus my question is this: We're trying to play out the moondancers as they should be - bound by their beliefs, ideals, and purpose. Why should we give our members freedom to go against those?

My memory's hazy and all, but doesn't that contradict Serenwilde's notions of (relative) freedom?

But in any case, point taken. I guess it would be too much to compare it to the irl religion it was ripped from.

The only forest commune to survive the Taint Wars, the Serenwilde is under
the guidance of two Great Spirits of Nature: White Hart, an enormous
spirit stag, who lives in the Serenwilde itself, nearby to the druidical
circle of Hartstone; and Mother Moon who has three avatars on the ethereal
side of Serenwilde, representing the Maiden, Mother and Crone. Disgusted
with civilization, who they blame for the cause of the Taint, the
Serenwilde Commune withdrew into itself for a long period, and only now is
slowly coming out of its shell to take part in the activities within the
Basin of Life.

The nexus of power in the Serenwilde is the Moonhart Mother Tree, located
in the southern part of the forest. As all forests, the Serenwilde is
reflected on the ethereal plane adjacent to the Realm of Faethorn.

Where does it say freedom?

Somewhere in the early posts

The Commune's beliefs do not have to be the same as the guild's philosophies. This is where people get hung up on. Not to mention the fact that a society with no form of law structure is a despot and anarchist. This whole common sense shall rule, is like putting a 5 year old in a candy store and telling him not to touch anything.

Quite frankly, and no offence to Lord Auseklis (don't you love when someone says that right before they are about to offend), laws are needed in order to maintain some sense of status quo. You can have laws that grant equal freedom to all, or laws that restrict the freedoms of all. Some laws even do both, but in the end laws are needed or all you have is people doing as they please and citing the line "there is no law against it."

Yeah, always reminds me of the "with all due respect (ie. none)" thing.

Narsrim and TUek, I thought you two would be logical, but let me explain this:

I die in 4 hits.
So only 3 people need to attacke me for to die.


How many hits do you die in? How many people does it take to kill you? Which means to stop you from running away?

Yes, you kill a lot mrore people on you, but a lot more people hit you back.

Here are my two cents on the matter.

Let us say that Y invades X, hence only the army is involved. This kind of action, the after the war is over, may psychologically impact the population of X to be descriminate towards Y. This mass action created a mass opportunity for X to be resentful towards Y/and people, also feel that they need careful towards Y. What you get here is a rather tense atmosphere in which any really quantifiable action between the two parties may outbreak into tense discussions between both parties and may gradually erupt into a war.

Though, still, not such terrifying actions as a war may affect the psychology of a population towards a foreign party. If different people from A constantly go to B, and rob/kidnapp/murder, you can say that the population of B will formulate an opinion regarding A around these actions committed by only a few. Therefore, like it or not, people will often link a person with their origin and may catalogue such person as a representative of it's place of origin and may be able to formulate a discriminate view towards a whole group soley based on the actions of a minority: "All As are criminals", "All Rs must be terrorists".

Also, if a place doesn't punish some persons for commiting something that could be considered as an international violation, one could just as easily consider that that place condones that type of action. That is what is happening in Lusternia. Tuek-Narsrim are representatives of Serenwilde, like it or not even when they may have expressed they are acting as individuals. Clearly Magnagora may grow tired of Serenwilde for not placing T&N on a leash.

So? Magnagora may consider itself rightful on seeking retribution: Moondancer GH raid. It may not have been the smartest thing to do, because this will only cause a further impression on the population of Serenwilde on probably considering that a dislike towards Magnagora is completely justifiable.

Now, let us say that only a faction of radicals from each group are the ones actually commiting the actions. If there is no reprimands from part of their national origins, a group might as well consider such factions as being supported by their respective nations. The greater the scale of said actions, the greater will be the impression that may cause on a group of people.

Narsrim and Tuek killing Gorgulu, this may make Magnagora consider that Serenwilde has given them green-card to commit crimes against them.

Magnagorans raiding Moondancer guildhall, this may be considered as an invasion. Raids are invasions, even if they may be in a miniscule scale... and we know that in places like Lusternia you can't really invade to occupy a place.

Bottom line: The actions of the different groups, whether the group is acting as a whole or not, will further deteriorate the views of a group towards the other.

On the other hand, both groups are capable of regenerating any ties between both parties... especially considering when Magnagora's direct opposite is Celest, Serenwilde doesn't really need to encounter itself involved.

What the heck kinda 2 cents is that? That's more like £200k. :/