Silvanus said that many of them were people he killed who were in enemy territory. That doesn't make sense since those are free kills. If anyone has a large list then it should mean he is killing lots of people for reasons that are not self-defense, not defending villages et al, not defending his home city, and not warfare on the planes. So the question is: is that warfare permissive enough? How often would you fight outside those bounds for reasonable reasons?

I don't think I've posted a wrong word about Karma before this, but now I must say this system sucks. I have the knowledge curse now and it just rapes my skills until I can find a few hours to bash for enough karma to get rid of it.

I have a very small suspect list, especially compared to when I first came to Lusternia, where it was at 30-40 regularly. But if you look...


Victim Status
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Lament Suspect (jumped me with a team on neutral ground, I later avenged)
Marsu Suspect (deep, deep insults, as you're all aware I'm sure)
Genos Suspect (demesne hit me in neutral ground)
Jadryga Suspect (defending spectres in Old Celest)
Torgith Suspect (jumped me in neutral ground)
Nayl Suspect (same)
Borca Suspect (demesne hit me in neutral ground, plus defending OC)
Rexali Suspect (walked into a room and made a total ass out of himself with the obvious intention of getting suspect so he could use karmic curses. Total abuse of the system, he was killed 4/5 times and tele'd back after praying each time to get more suspects)
Lapurio Suspect (jumped me in neutral ground)
*******************************************************************************

No automatic system is going to be effective at deciding these issues, no matter how complex.

I spoted a log somewhere, that when Ladantine was raised and I was gathering squid, Geb jumped me and attacked me first, even though i had to declare on him. And to say I won't raid Celest's village, or celest, anytime I see an opening is absurd, I'd expect any Celestian/Magnagoran to hate each other and want to kill each other, no matter where they are.

I like the thing Roark posted about only cursing people who have a large suspect list. I also think that those with a large suspect list should be unable to curse, as they are clearly capable of defending themselves. Those with small or non-existant suspect lists who are killed by people with very large suspect lists are most likely the type of random kills that the karma system is meant to stop. I think that if karma was more targeted to stopping these kills, rather than all kills, it'd be a much better system.

I also think that it would be nice if one could issue to appeal an innapropriate curse, but I can certainly see that taking up way too much of the admin's time, which is better spent developing the game like they do now.

Of the 10 listed, 3 "jumped you in neutral ground". If you did not declare against them then you could have killed them for free. So 30% of those I suspect are probably due to your own mistakes. 2 of them were demesne related. I think there is a problem with demesne (the bane of my existence) when the owner is in one PK zone and the demesne is in another. (That is being investigated to see if a problem really does exist.) If that situation is true and it gets fixed up then that cuts out another 20% of your list, shrinking it in half. For the one that was due to defending spectres (I don't recall which side you are on), if the person you killed had actually been bashing the NPCs you were trying to defend then he'd not be on the list. So it sounds like you may have killed someone who was not bashing the NPCs you were defending. If you cut that out on the assumption you meant to only target those that are bashing the NPCs you want to defend and will be more careful of that in the future then that reduces your suspect list by 60%.

I phantomed Andala I believe, on Celestia, and others hit her, when she transversed down to prime, she died ot my phantom and I got Suspect, even though I hit her on Celestia

Declare still confuses me. I shouldn't have to work out which situations I need to use defend or declare, which areas I can use what, who owns them, and then remember to re-declare or re-defend (make sure you're allied to the person you want to defend, of course) every time it wears off, if necessary.

RP isn't as simple as 'Ladantine owns Spectre Isle, therefore you shouldn't defend spectres'. Come on.

What I don't really understand is why doesn't the system automatically recognizes that if someone declared and attacked you that if you declare and attack back, you still get suspect if you score the kill. Wouldn't it make more sense that if you declared your aggression against someone that you cannot in anyway gain suspect if the person killed you while you have declared him?

I still don't understand the concept of "defending" spectre isle. The whole celest quest Kills off all of the spectres!

A simple trigger will allow you to not worry about declare and not accidently declare people.

I like basing curses on your suspect list. If you have a blank suspect list, and kill someone, I don't think you should be cursed. I'm not sure where I'd draw the line between cursable and not cursable, but it seems a bit extreme for everyone to get cursed for a single kill in the wrong territory.

Because, Daganev, they're not "killing" the spectres, they're "laying them to rest." From their viewpoint it's entirely different - if you kill them, they're still haunted and come back and stuff. If you lay them to rest, you're releasing their souls from the torture that is undeath. Maybe Daganev IC wouldn't understand the difference, but you as a player should know why the Celestians think the way they do.

*titter* Estarra said irregardless!

No, I don't see how the charachters would know the difference. "Repop" is not a method in which to determine roleplay.

I'm not sure what the best way to deal with it is, because death doesn't really matter all that much to players in the game, I don't see why it would be different with the "mobiles"

And I wouldn't say one method is less violent than the other. A nuclear bomb that kills everything instantly is just as violent as thousands of smaller granades.

Can we not lose karma on planes?

The characters would know the difference because one results in their head being crushed in by a blunt instrument, while one results in their ascending in a column of holy light.

Oh yeah, I was annoyed by that... loosing karma when I killed someone on earth.

If you offer a good soul to a good Deity, they go to a better place, hopefully. Their souls are comforted, rather than tortured/devoured. That's the difference. Death isn't the end in Lusternia.

If you just never use DECLARE then it should work itself out. Any time you use DECLARE you are saying, "I intend to initiate aggression against this person and take punishment in a PK-restricted zone". Thus if that is not your intent then the solution is to only kill people that it lets you kill without declaring.

Defending never wears off unless you cease fighting for several minutes. If you defend someone and enter into a 30 minute non-stop battle(!) then it will not wear off. Thus there is no need to remember to re-defend. The same applies to declaring.

You know thats a good point... I've never seen any after life ideas in Lusternia. Its never mentioned that there is an after life.