Wants?

Lemme see if I understand your reasoning. If only a small handful of people are using an ability that gave them an obvious advantage over their opponents, it's alright? Look at spores, only a handful of people use it to escape fighting, and it was toned down. Look at Death Tarot in Achaea, it was immediately toned down when Timothy first used it to kill Tranquility because there was barely 5 to 6 seconds of escape time. Or how about the fact that disembowel in Achaea was immediately toned down after being upgraded when it did way too much damage?

The fact that only a small handful of people gain significant advantages in a skill that was not obviously designed to be such a huge deciding factor in fighting should be looked into, not discarded. If you don't fix a problem when it first started but ignore it once it has became much larger, is that a good thing? Saying that only 10 or so people use it right now doesn't justify that more people will use it in the future.

Spores was used by anyone who could get their hands on them - not a few people.
Death Tarot was toned down because Tranquility whines like a little girl with a skinned knee at every opportunity he can, and Matt was probably just that sick of hearing it he toned it down just to shut Tranq up. If you ever shared a guild/city with Tranq you would already know that the only reason Tranq got his own way was because he whined incessantly for hours and hours on the same topic, to the point where at least 30 regular citizens made triggers to specifically gag anything that Tranquility said over any form of communication.

Spores was used by a number of people, but only two of them, Narsrim and Tuek really used them effectively for raiding purposes, hence why the majority of the rants on the forum regarding spores were directed at them. That still doesn't justify the fact that an Aslaran should be able to shieldstun fast enough that I could get one command through between the time I was unstunned to the time he could shieldstun me again. No one as yet has stated why Aslaran should be able to shieldstun at such an incredible rate, except that since only a few people use it, it isn't a problem.

The shieldstun hardly seemed to shut you down at all however. You were able to cure and heal just fine. I really don't see the problem. Anyone else using it, won't have the immense strength advantages that Warriors have, so it won't even be nearly as noticeable.

And when I was saying how Knights shouldn't be able to use it, I was referring to the fact, that swinging with a single arm, is more effective then all my fae combined, so why should only Warriors be able to use it exactly and not anyone else?

Firstly, saying that no other class that has no immense strength advantages can't use them effectively is wrong. As you and Ceres have demonstrated (neither are knights last time I checked) in Aslaran form that you nearly shut down Thorgal and Murphy with it, so I sincerely doubt that it won't be nearly as noticeable. Do you need to go look at the logs they posted once again?

Secondly, I agree with you that knights shouldn't be the only class that can use shieldstun, in fact I have never stated otherwise. I'm more concerned about the fact that an Aslaran, regardless of class, can stun someone so fast.

As I've posted this before, I'll do it again just to show you.



Right or wrong, someone should be able to stun another person fast enough that the target can only get one command in between unstunning and the next shieldstun?

Try tapping shield a whole load of times when someone shieldstuns you. Buys you a few moments, and you can always just keep shieldstunning them back until they change their ideas.

Personally, I think someone fast enough should sometimes be able to get stuns very soon after the last stuns, as long as it's not consistent, that is, along as it gives you a way to counter it. Again, I don't see a problem here.

It's impossible to counter if you were paralysed while you were stunned. An Aslaran Celestine can constantly shieldstun/slash while his angel hit with paralysis, or Nihilist with shackles. Or as Tuek and Ceres went, just shieldstun x 50 times and let their faes/demesne finish your enemies off. I personally enjoy the challenge and creativity associated with combat, but when someone is able to just win through one immobilizing skill, I sincerely doubt it was designed to be that powerful.

I did it once to Thorgal. From the looks of your logs, it was quite easy to handle. Only ONE time did you fail to get the commands you needed in, due to a bit of latency on your side. Also, when I did it to Thorgal, what I did was allhex a complete lock, then immediately follow up with shieldstun/crotamine. It wasn't letting my fae finish him off, and it was a creative strategy, since no one had done it prior. The purpose was, to get the hexlock to stick just a short while longer then normal, so that the crotamine could kill him.

Terenas like I said you caught me when I had -just- got shieldstun and made a shield, its not my usual tactic, but its my response to webwhoring. Like amaru said, I shieldstun till you change your ideas about webwhoring, then I go back to my weapons

Um, I actually stopped webbing a good minute or two before I used haymaker and moonbursted. In addition I only webbed roughly 5 or so times in a row prior to that, so I could hardly consider that webwhoring. If you look back I moonbursted 8 times since you started shieldstunning and kept on going for another 18 shieldstunning. 5 web in a row can hardly be considered webwhoring, 19 shieldstun in a row on the other hand. How were you shieldstunning me until I changed my ideas about webbing when I stopped and bursted you?

Notice that the only people who will defend shieldstun are Aslarans who use it in combat. Quite honestly, I think Lusternia's combat system needs to move away from damage/stun to something more interesting. Given that you can shieldstun and knockdown and stack stun... it gets to be ridiculous. Furtermore, two Aslaran Knight newbies could kill almost anyone if they just stuck to stun/swing. In my opinion, shield stun should be downgraded (and yes, this would require a fresh name) to where it didn't stun at all but rather knocked the target off balance. This way Aslaran's could still benefit from it but it wouldn't be ridiculously effective.

Agree with narsrim

And i saw you moonbursting me, which also hurt a lot more than you were hitting me for, so I saw reason to continue with shieldstun till you went back to using weapons.

Plus like I said, I was testing my 28 odd attack macros which all look like this

IF (@shieldwield = 1 AND @balance = 1 AND @shielded = 0) {shieldstun @target}
#IF (@shieldwield = 1 AND @balance = 1 AND @shielded = 1) {
raze @target
shieldstun @target
}
#IF (@shieldwield = 1) {#IF (@balance = 1) {#IF (@shielded = 1 OR @rebounded = 1) {raze @target} {#IF (@left_arm_balance = 1 AND @right_arm_balance = 1) {strike @target rleg} {#IF (@left_arm_balance = 1) {strike @target rleg} {#IF (@right_arm_balance = 1 AND @left_arm_balance = 0) {strike @target rleg}}}}}}
#IF (@shieldwield = 0) {#IF (@shielded = 1 OR @rebounded = 1) {raze @target} {#IF (@left_arm_balance = 1 AND @right_arm_balance = 1) {strike @target rleg} {#IF (@left_arm_balance = 1) {strike @target rleg} {#IF (@right_arm_balance = 1 AND @left_arm_balance = 0) {strike @target rleg}}}}}

and some are even more complicated, so I had to test each one out, given that i use the ctrl and alt modifyers dependsing on what sort of hit i want to do.

Damn Murphy...

It might be bit slower, but this is why I split a lot of my commands into small chunks and then have aliases call those aliases/functions. So much simpler to read, edit, and debug.

That, and I'm used to programming in java now.

Zmud is actually really good, when you get it right, aliases get underlined and whatnot. My attack macro is about to couble in size since im in the process of adding in queued attacks

I notice that I'm one of the few defending it and I have never even owned or held a shield. You're very quick with the facts, Narsrim, but they'd be more effective if they were true now and then.

Gwylifar

you could be really fast with it Gwylifar with the speed stipes thing

Yeah, but I chose Moon instead of Stag. Gwylifar wants to be a good fighter, but that's a means, not an end; what he really wants is to be good for his tribe. He decided Moon would be better for him to be good for his tribe overall, even if it's not as effective as Stag at makinng him a good fighter.