Imagine that each city/commune had another ministry. Call it the secret service. Have the minister perform as the spy master. Have the aides be his agents, and allow them to have access to a special skills. These skills will not be spotted by guild leaders with the GUILD SKILLS command.
The identity of this minister will only be known by the city prince/emperor (main guy) and maybe the council (the guild masters), but the Aides remain unknown, and unlisted.

This secret ministry will have as a mission, scan the city for enemy spies, infiltrate into the enemy city/communes to gain information, sabotage, theft, assassination, and framing people into believing someone from their own city is doing it.

Now, the Minister of this uber top secret ...erm ...ministry, will have an array of fun PRIVS, as to see a log of bank transactions, or mail deliveries. Who sent a letter to what area ...etc (without giving too much away. The point is the minister has to put the "clues" together to uncover suspicious people).

On the other hand, the Aides do the fun stuff. They are citizens that belong to their own guilds, but take this job additionally. With an entire skillset to their disposal, they would be able to do this:

DESGUISE: Syntax: DESGUISE (Target). Use desguise kits to look like a certain person (the target). The target doesnt need to be anywhere near the agent. That includes name, title, look (when you look at the person). But tells still get directed to the original, and if the desguised agent sends a tell, they will still be heard as whoever they are, titles and all). If .. that person is around. Of course, guards, demesnes statues will by bypassed. With a percentage of being uncovered, every time you pass by a room with such security measures. This percentage is based on how high your skill is.

((imagine you see Yrael walk by real quick, and you are his friend, so you send him a tell ... "Hey! You didnt stop to say hello!" and Yrael responds: "Huh? what are you talking about, i just came in". A second later, you are calling the guards))

PICKPOCKET: Syntax: PICKPOCKET (target) (key/letter). Used to randomly take a key or letter away from a target. This key must be within grasp, so if its stashed in a pack or pocketbelt, then no luck. The chance of failure also depends on DEX and skillrank. If you are caught, there is another chance your Desguise is broken (chance also dependant on skillrank). And if that ever happens, you better know how to run fast.

((this skill can be used to snatch documents, or keys from a target when they are unprepared. Maybe after following them into an office ...))

TRACKING: Syntax: TRACKING (target). Used to follow someone without that person noticing that you have started following them, and not showing on ENT.

KITMAKING: Syntax: ASSEMBLE KIT. By using a set of inks, leather, herbs and ... (some other components) you can create a desguise kit. The kit can be stored in the rift. And you use up desguise kits when you use the DESGUISE skill.

HIDE: ... Most people can Yesod anyway, but .. something to hide them and conceal them should be useful.

TUNE: Syntax: TUNE (Target). The target must be in the same location as the person tuning. It takes a few seconds of equilibrim. If the target moves before the equilibrim is regained, then the tuning is broken. This action doesnt get detected, unless on critical failure. And the higher the skillrank the faster the tuning can be completed, and less chance of failing. After the tuning is complete, as long as the target and the agent remain in the same location, the agent cant eavesdrop on the tells, and aether communications, the target is recieving. Clan channels, guild channels, city channels .. etc. While having a low skill, the ammount of "intercepted messages" will be extremely low and garbled. And there will be no access to tells. But as the skillrank goes up, the agent will catch most of the aether signals, and tells and with less "garbledness". While tracking, the following agent is masked, but if the following agent is TUNED, then the masking effect of Tracking will be lost.


The point being, adding something new to the realm, that i havent seen anywhere else. Keeping in mind that i -havent- seen many ..er .. realms. But thats not the point. The point is to have REAL IC spying, with secret agents and everything, instead of that annoyingly crappy and illegal OOC spying that i know that happens.

Many more skills could be added, or modified. But it will expand how city security works, and we can open up a whole new level of RP experience.

Lets hear what you guys and gals think!

Cute, a few problems.

One, with the existance of such things, people will not use letters so much, and stealing keys is a bad idea.

Two, There needs to be SERIOUS consequences if a minister of another city declares you to be a spy and is correct. Like a loss of 10 levels or something dramatic. However, if hte person declaring you a spy is wrong, they lose the 4 levels or something. And once caught you are never allowed to be a spy aide again.

Right, failing to declare a spy should bring down severe consecuences. Completely agreed.

I was thinking of pickpocket, but the thing is ... there are people who rob other peoples keys by using "forcing" abilities. Keys are so troublesome. -chin- Perhaps a lockpicking skill?

eavesdropping a few rooms away would be beter. even through doors.

EAVESDROP (direction) allows you to hear any noises made in the adjacent location, even through doors. With a higher skillrank, you get the ability to recognize the voices.

Something like that?

Do you really want to make things easier for people like me?

I like it as then people in Celest would actually be able to counter people like Yrael. A bit too much like the serpents in Achaea though.

You have got to be kidding me. Being able to steal someone's key and able to follow them and not showing up in ent? If your victim doesn't have thirdeye then that person is screwed, especially if the victim is a shop owner. Bad bad ideas.

hmm, I like it because of one major thing. Spying in IRE is...pathetically NOT RP. It happens, we all know it happens and their are some really talented spys out their, i've met a few in my travels, however the really good ones are the ones we never know about..this is the problem though, do you know why we don't know em? Because their just making logs of everything and sending it to someone on Yahoo and...that is the problem. Spying here isn't RPed for the most part. If it was..i'd be much more..happy about its existance

Good idea, but remove the skills Terenas says about. Spies are supposed to be, well, spies - not thieves.

Also, it's disguise. Not desguise.

<--- annoying

Espionage is interesting. Good idea.

It sounds abusable. A head of the ministry might give the job to a thief knowing that his thieving skills would aid his spywork, and the spy would be all too happy to abuse the powers.

True, maybe the thieving skills are overkill. So feel free to ignore them. But I would REALLY like to see some serious IC, and RP spycraft!!

As for preventing abuse, perhaps the council of the commune/city or maybe another unnamed minister can be assigned supervisor privs to monitor whatever the Minister of Intelligence (secret service) is doing, as to prevent abuse, or stepping out of line. Maybe everything the MoI (Minister of Intelligence) does is recorded in a log that can be opened up with the aggreement of the council members, if he (or she) is suspected of abusing powers.

Remember the main point of this, is to infiltrate behind enemy lines to do recon/scout work, to provide inside information, and to monitor spy activity within the cities/communes (aka counter espionage).

Imagine Yrael uses the DISGUISE (thank you Cuber -grin-) skill and enters New Celest. Then pretending to be Aether, he sits by the Pool of Stars and starts talking to the citizens in general, ..of course, having to RP the fact that he is impersonating Aether. Thusly, speaking like him, acting like him .. etc.

I VOTE FOR RP SPYCRAFT

Having spies aides and a MoI constantly having eyes on who is doing what on the city (without invading privacy) im talking about knowing who is where, just like third eye anyway, and maybe having the ability to have localized scrys, .. aka farscouting to monitor intruders, but on certain city areas (or discricts, ei. New Celest shopping area).

That way, not only we get a new way to infiltrate, but a new way to counter spies whether they are IC or OOC (the kind we all hate), and a new way to catch thieves -points accusingly at Yrael (even though annoying, never ceases to impress)-

I VOTE FOR RP SPYCRAFT!

It would be cool, but what I think this would need if it was impliment was that there was some way to still be a spy for Serenwilde, and be able to Join Celest or Mag(while maintain citizenship with Serenwilde secretly) to be able to spy on them closer and the such.. That would open it up for alot of things.

Draeld

I think maintaining citizenship to two places, even though one citizenship is secret, might be pushing it too far. But what -could- -maybe- -possibly- be done, is that the MoI has the ability to recruit MoI "Aides" (aka Agents) from other cities/communes.

In other words, you can drop your current citizenship, and join another city, and at the same time, peform as an Aide/agent to your previous city/commune.

Im not so sure about this one, because it could get quite messy, but .. what does everyone else think?

Hm, current spies "live" in any city and spy for other cities. So that change wouldn't make any difference. Just empowering those who are already spies. I believe.

Then we could also have some counter- espionage team. Aether, come up with some counter-espionage skills.

Edit: Spies that operate within one's own country for another group are known as moles. We already have multiple moles, no need to make them better.

Yes, giving moles even more power is way too much. In fact the current skillset, that involves TRACKING and TUNING will allow counter intel agents within a city fish out the moles!

Imaginary log of unsuspecting newbie pseudo-mole in New Celest:

The Pool of Stars
You see Meleris standing here, CuteFaelingPaladin stands here with a practice shortsword in each hand, ExtraHighLevelAquamancer stands here with a coral staff in his left hand.

ExtraHighlevelAquamancer says to CuteFaelingPaladin: "Follow up, there are no guards at the Gates of Angkrag, lets go get some miners!"
CuteFaelingPaladin says to ExtraHighLevelAquamancer: "Oooooohh, lets go! Lets go! All of the Mags are offplane too!!"
CuteFaelingPaladin bounces.
You tell MegaEvilMagnagoran: "Sir! They fell for it, expect a raid at Angkrag."
MegaEvilMagnagoran tells you: "Very good. Follow them and report their moves."
You begin following ExtraHighLevelAquamancer.
ExtraHighLevelAquamancer smiles at you joyously.

You have been outcitizened.


-------------------------------

Now lets see the same event from CutePaladinFaeling's perspective.

The Pool of Stars
You see Meleris standing here, ExtraHighLevelAquamancer stands here with a coral staff in his left hand, Noobspy stands here holding a platinum piercing needle in his left hand, and a ham sandwich in his right hand.

You slightly shift your body and approach Noobspy without him noticing. Bowing your head slightly you begin tuning into his mind.
ExtraHighlevelAquamancer says to you: "Follow up, there are no guards at the Gates of Angkrag, lets go get some miners!"
You say to ExtraHighLevelAquamancer: "Oooooohh, lets go! Lets go! All of the Mags are offplane too!!"
You succesfully link your mind with Noobspy.
You have recovered equilibrium.
You bounce.
You detect Noobspy's thoughts, as he tells MegaEvilMagnagoran: "S**! T*ey f**l *or it, ex*ect * raid at Angkr**."
You detect Noobspy's thoughts, as MegaEvilMagnagoran tells him: "***y *ood. F*llow th*m a*d *eport t**ir move*."
You tell TheCelestianSpyMaster: "Caught one. Noobspy."
TheCelestianSpyMaster: "You better be right -grin-."
You tell TheCelestianSpyMaster: "-grin-"
ExtraHighLevelAquamancer smiles at Noobspy.

(Noobspy is ejected from Celest)

In this case, Noobspy was an active mole. He was not a Magnagoran agent. He -can- whine to the city council that he was falsely accused. The council can suspect that the MoI was abusing his powers. But the MoI has nothing to hide. Investigation is opened, and the council members open up the months log for the MoI, which will include intercepted communications. Thusly proving that Noobspy was a spy.

Just throwing ideas, feel free to pitch in.
Maybe additions to the skillset avaible to the MoI?

You have been outcitizened.

Just a thought, maybe the TUNING skill could use up power. That way, it becomes less of a freebie skill. You have to use it wisely.

I like the RP spying.. just dont make stealing any easier. I mean, seriously. Tracking and pickpocket.. I'd come close to crashing the economy.

Can you imagine me with disguise? Heh. Heh. Heh. Sit at the Moonhart Tree as Tuek and proclaim my love for the taint, slap Miakoda and make a run for it. Or just denounce Serenwilde in Celest.