Even if you trans planar, knights still require the help of one of the other two classes to get upto Astral - at least thats the way it was explained to me in beta.

But, they're not nuetral. That's the point. We raid for dwarves, so that our city can operate well with metals, since we've essentially been denied the mining villages. Because it's essentially impossible for us to influence one of them then Angkrag, because village influencing is done at a *minimum* of 19 minutes (Granted, this was the time for both Rockholm AND Angkrag). While this IS a relief from the once 6-10 hours (which made me cry), it really isn't any better. By the time we actually are able to get in there, and tear down the guards, the village is influenced. Or mostly. And, often times, we'll have the antithesis of the village in question (acknor, stewarts) and we'll be screwed.

Point being, we need metals. To get these metals, we need miners. And so do they. This said, we have to RAID for miners. And, unlike Tuek, we can't all tank between five and ten people hitting on us, while continueing bashing.

So, really, we've got a problem. We raid, in groups of 5-10 people. Say all of us just get one suspect. By the end of a RL week, we'll often accumulate between 3 and 7 people on our list. (an average of one raid per day).

See the problem? We, as Magnagorans, don't have any singular tanky person that can run into Rockholm and Southgard and constantly raid for dwarfs, ignore defenders, clean out the mines. Like Tuek and Narsrim. Blame the players for this, or not. It's not our fault the tanky s.o.b.s went to the Seren, or just stay on Astral a LOT (coughixioncough). But, anyway. We get suspects for our comms. So is it really a fair trade that we are thusly screwed, because to get these comms, our fighters are now out of commission with 2-3 curses that cumulatively took 10-15 karma to put up, and will take well over 200% karma to clear it off. Or we just sit there and die, repeatedly, as we have nature/life/death afflictions, so we have 1 hp, die repeatedly, and lost HP when outside.

Maybe I'm just misinterpreting things, though.

Um, no. The defenders can attack us without having to declare. If you'ld like, we can do a small display, and you can see for yourself. But WE get suspect for it. That's our major problem.

No, no you can't, it must be a bug. If you raid an enemy village, the defenders run in and attack you, start killing you. In order to defend yourself, you must DECLARE them, and if you succeed in killing them, they gain suspect on you, thusly leading to you possibly being cursed.

Edit: And that is why, I usually don't bother to declare my attackers, I simply ignore them and keep bashing

Yes. But, really, you're bashing mobs that sometimes end up 2-3 in a room, you're BARELY alive, and one person can walk in, omen, and you're dead. Or, hell, blast/cosmicfire, web, anything, you're dead. We don't want it. At all. I don't think ANY ONE in the player base would like that situation.

Not if you have the next to trans ability, NEXUS, unless I am very much mistaken

My question is why would anyone get suspect? You can defend yourself and kill the aggressor without gaining suspect even if you are in enemy territory (as long as you don't initiate the attack).

You've been by Erion. Ouch.

I hope you are talking about all three Serenwilde guilds, because that is the only lot this comment applies to.

See Tuek's and mine's prior posts. It doesn't work like that. They can attack, we can't defend without declaring, and thus getting suspect.

Hmm, why didn't anyone tell me this? I'll have Roark look into it.

No, he was talking about Magnagorans.

It's been the subject of loud bitching repeatedly. Munsia has a fit when I do it to her in the Glom, and Tuek mentions it whenever he talks about raiding Angkrag, which has to be like 2-3 times a day, given the rate mags complain at.

EDIT: But, thank you. I'm glad it'll be looked into. It'll save us the head ache. But it's been adressed before, and mentioned before, and I believe all the divine/admins have said on it is, "You're in enemy territory, live with it." Although you all may have just been misinterpreting what we were saying.

Actually I was talking about the knight guilds - I didn't know the particulars about Hartstone/Moondancers but I assumed they had a way at least to get upto Ethereal in their guildskills.

I assumed it was a feature and not a bug. Oh well, not a feature I liked, but I don't like to complain.

Heh, well, my apologies! Sometimes I don't have a chance to read every post and a big bug like that should be messaged or issued to get immediate attention.

I like the way this works now. Are we talking about changing it so that someone enters enemy territory and starts killing loyal mobiles, then the DEFENDERS have to declare and potentially gain bully status? Doesn't it open up a host of problems more than the way it is now?

As Tuek said, we kind of assumed it was a feature. As long as it's fixed, I imagine you'll have a lot of the anti-karma curse sentiment die out.

I'll take the blame for this. As Roark will tell you, sometimes I have an idea in my mind on how something should work but don't explain it well enough to others.

No. See, okay. Tuek enters Angkrag, and kills dwarves. As it is now, if I attack him, I don't have to declare. He kills me, I get suspect on him. Estarra's saying I should HAVE to declare, so that if he kills me, he doesn't get suspect. But if I kill him, I still don't get suspect.