Ceres, why not post the whole log for us to see? Then we can see if Dreamweaving wasn't supposed to be as effective in combat as the admins planned it to be. If Dreamweaving worked much better than Runes in conjunction to other Mage's abilities, then I'm guessing we can safely discard that idealistic notion the admins had.

As I said, it does need looking at. I can only imagine the chaos an Aqua with an embedded MemoryLoss and a Celestine with Judge could wreck.

But if it's scrapped or weakened vastly, something'll have to be added to give the skillset more plausibility.

The whole log was me getting frozen a whole lot, diagnosing, curing, trying to hit and not being sure if I had because of blackout, then tackling him out of his demesne before timing out.

Ummm.. the whole fact that you get phase as a novice skill, that can go through doors, is enough to mean the skill should NOT be the best choice for combat, like the Help scroll suggested. The blackout needs to be weakened vastly, and no, the skillset needs no more plausibility then it has, it is great.

Roark already said the going through doors was an accident, and it was fixed rather quickly.

Ah well. Even still, a novice phase ability. My point stands. The log Ceres posted of the blackout is way to much. Passive blackout is a much worse idea than even passive stun. Not to mention, the passive stun combined with passive blackout. Any fighter would be a fool to choose runes at this point. It's now like comparing Tarot to Hexes, maybe even a greater gap.

Yeah, but now both Magi guilds get passive blackout + passive stun.

It's really not a novice phase ability because as a novice, you can only leave your body and enter the dreambody, then return to your body at will. It's not until you get into Mythical that you get the ability to move your body to where your dreambody is.

Yep. I hope dreamweaving is turned into the utility ability the help scroll it suggests, not with a few overpowered oddities like embedded blackout. Perhaps that mote can be made so it isn't able to be embed, just used with puncture.

You all are forgetting one important factor. Unlike runes, or hell even tarot. Dreamweavers cannot just sit there and rattle off 1500 runes/cards. I have done this in runes in a day so I know it is easy.

Dreamweaving takes massive amounts of willpower and 1 power/mote to create.

So in 5 hours I have created 100 motes of varying types. If you want to whine and moan that Blackout is a horrible thing, then fine, but let's look at the facts. How many people are going to throw away 5 hours a day and 100 power a day to create motes so that they have a chance to do anything? Most people are not even around for 5 hours a day, and those who are, that is the entire time they are around.

In the Hartstone, where we have to dissolve everytime we leave, that means any motes we used are long gone at that point, and the next day we come on and try and make a few more motes to last us through. So sure you might walk into a room with blackout, not much worse than me walking into a room with 4 knights. Either way death is going to occur for somebody.

The difference is, that is four Knights. The other way, it is just a single mage.

Also, they can use the undoing mote, to passively strip defenses, with no message which is stripped. Ok, so it's like cleansing then? Well, see, here defenses are much more important, since they cost power, and are not easily reapplied. That is in itself, another possibly overpowered oddity in the skillset.

Do you go through motes as fast as runes? No. So will you ever use up all 100 of those as fast as 100 runes? No. You're complaining that it takes 5 hours to create 100 motes but how many do you need to fuse into a room for fighting? 1.


Main difference between walking into a room with 4 knights and a demesne. Demesne spands up to 400 rooms and have a various number of ways to afflict, hinder, and damage. 4 knights can be avoided or escaped from easily, especially if they're in one room, much easier when compared to a demesne with just 10 rooms with full effects + motes. And demesne takes only one Mage/Druid to put down, comparing them to 4 knights only shows that demesnes are too powerful.

If I am fusing Gyfu in my demesne and I have 100 gyfu runes, and 100 rooms I, have 0 Gyfu runes left. If I am embeding Blackout in my demesne and I have 100 motes and 100 rooms, I have 0 motes left. Do the math. No matter what, you use them both in the same quantity. If I was going to fight in 1 room, I fuse 1 Gyfu, or now I embed 1 mote.
You use them just as fast. The only reason I would not use them just as fast is because the time and power involved in making them so I would instead of embedding 100 rooms, embed 2 or 3 rooms.

As for the latter part of your statement, see the former part of mine.

Edit:: Also as for complaining. I was not complaining about anything. The only complaining I see here are a few people who have barely let a skill live out 24 hours before crying that they will lose in a fight.

My skill isn't bad. It takes 50000 gold to kill anyone anywhere instantly and strips all defences and vitae and makes them pray with extra experience loss and pacifies them for 439582543 real days.

You can't judge skills by their setup cost.

I wasn't judging a skill by its setup cost. I was stating that unlike runes which I could quite easily fill my entire Demesne with. Motes will not be such a thing. There is a serious balance in the fact that now the overall demesne remains the same but you need to get people into your 2 or 3 rooms that are super tanky. Where as before I could have you paralysed all over in my demesne, and from all accounts on the forums nobody knew how to focus body because you all complained that was too powerful as well.

Now, just so you don't think I am saying Blackout is fine. I think permanent blackout or permanent stun is too much and as Estarra's post said in Lusternia, the skillset will undergo many changes as things are watched and they see what happens.

I do think crying "nerf the skill" less than 24 hours after it comes in though is nothing but whining. Something the forums have seemed to mass produced in people lately.

It doesn't matter, anything that causes permanent blackout is overpowered, no matter the setup or situation. You don't need any in-depth testing or years of experience to come to that conclusion.

Which is why I suggested that the single blackout mote be made unable to be embed. Being able to give blackout on command is powerful enough, passively on a timer, is much much worse. Randomly is the least worrisome, but still bad, and is thankfully limited to just the Nil Grim Horror and the Handmaiden.

Undoing also bugs me, passively stripping defenses that cost power to put up, with no message as to what has been stripped.

Anyway...



Right now, the disparity is greater then the difference between Tarot and Hexes, where Dreamweaving actually has greater offensive capability, plus the addition of utility abilities.

Edit: On a sidenote, just finished transcending dreamweaving.

I have not had time to actually play with the abilities in Dreamweaving, but the log Ceres put up there is very disturbing. I think what a lot of us mages need to realize is that that we will have to deal with this stuff too. We have to cleanse the enemy demesne, so we have to deal with the enemy demesne effects. Putting it in perspective like that, we should easily see that some of these abilities are extremely overpowering.

I agree that blackout should not be embeddable and perhaps change undoing into an active means of stripping defenses. I will have to play with more of the skills to see exactly how powerful they are, but the two I’ve mentioned should be reviewed and perhaps revised.

Agreed. Good to see that you are objective, Geb, and recognized that as a potential problem as I did.

It has to be said, though, that it's sad that mages have to be convinced with logic such as

before accepting something's overpowered.