Yawgmoth2005-03-21 05:45:01
So, does everyone think that this skill is submittable? Does it need more work? Tell me! Help me balance it out so it doesn't get whacked with the big nerf stick later on!
Unknown2005-03-21 05:49:50
Well... I'm assuming this is a Guardian class, right?
If you're going with Glomdoring then just remember
Totems > Night/Crow
Nature > Shadowbinding
Healing/Hexes/SomethingNew
I think it'd be best if we did an in-depth analysis based on those ideals. I think it could use a little tweaking, but I'm a little sleepy right now to look over it fully. I like the concept though, but in comparison (If we're using the above skeleton) then a few skills wouldn't fit in or would overlap.
If you're going with Glomdoring then just remember
Totems > Night/Crow
Nature > Shadowbinding
Healing/Hexes/SomethingNew
I think it'd be best if we did an in-depth analysis based on those ideals. I think it could use a little tweaking, but I'm a little sleepy right now to look over it fully. I like the concept though, but in comparison (If we're using the above skeleton) then a few skills wouldn't fit in or would overlap.
Unknown2005-03-21 06:40:14
This would probably be best as the Night specialization of Totems, after reading through this...
Great skillset, otherwise, though some stuff needs a bit of balancing.
Great skillset, otherwise, though some stuff needs a bit of balancing.
Elryn2005-03-21 13:04:22
I feel like a broken record, but I just want to point out totems and nature don't make much sense for glomdoring (as it is currently).
I really like the thought you've put into your skills though, they sound wonderful.
My opinions/suggestions:
Anything that is stackable should be moderate in effect, so the webbing and skill where you can summon a legion of loyals is probably a bit much without significant cost in power to stop excessive overuse.
Also, I have to agree that 75% or more damage reduction for any damage type is way too much without a hellova drawback. An extra 25% vulnerability to magic doesn't come close.
Try not to limit the class too much to night entirely, if they need to defend during the day they shouldn't be utterly helpless. Particularly skills directly useful for bashing would be best left unrelated to the time of day.
Maybe a skill to bring on unnatural night in a room would help if you want to keep the skills they way they are? Also keep in mind the night component is only about a third of each lusternian day.
Otherwise, good job and keep the ideas coming!
I really like the thought you've put into your skills though, they sound wonderful.
My opinions/suggestions:
Anything that is stackable should be moderate in effect, so the webbing and skill where you can summon a legion of loyals is probably a bit much without significant cost in power to stop excessive overuse.
Also, I have to agree that 75% or more damage reduction for any damage type is way too much without a hellova drawback. An extra 25% vulnerability to magic doesn't come close.
Try not to limit the class too much to night entirely, if they need to defend during the day they shouldn't be utterly helpless. Particularly skills directly useful for bashing would be best left unrelated to the time of day.
Maybe a skill to bring on unnatural night in a room would help if you want to keep the skills they way they are? Also keep in mind the night component is only about a third of each lusternian day.
Otherwise, good job and keep the ideas coming!
Yawgmoth2005-03-21 19:29:35
Hrm... well, this could come right after the bow...
Night:
Premise: Changes the room that the player is in to nighttime.
Description (short):
Crush your opponents with absolute night
Description (long):
Syntax: shadowbind night
Effect: Creates a demesne-like effect where a modifier is placed upon the room- like “The room is shrouded in unnatural night†or something like that.
Cost: 200 mana, 1 power
Description: Time itself shall bend to your will.
It would basically rework the shadowbinding skillset to be more demesne-like, though... think I should try writing a shadow-demesne skillset?
Night:
Premise: Changes the room that the player is in to nighttime.
Description (short):
Crush your opponents with absolute night
Description (long):
Syntax: shadowbind night
Effect: Creates a demesne-like effect where a modifier is placed upon the room- like “The room is shrouded in unnatural night†or something like that.
Cost: 200 mana, 1 power
Description: Time itself shall bend to your will.
It would basically rework the shadowbinding skillset to be more demesne-like, though... think I should try writing a shadow-demesne skillset?
Revan2005-03-22 08:02:26
This isn't a guardian class skillset. It's a mage skillset. Look at the staff skill... guardians don't have staff. Plus, they have a form of pollute/maelstrom/fury. In any case, this skillset looks amazing, and I do hope the Administration takes a good long look at it for the Glomdoring druids.
Unknown2005-03-23 00:26:51
That'd be interesting... make it the Glomdoring mage guild with a demesne that causes permanent night. And if a 'tainted elfen' race does get created, they get night regeneration, like the lucidian day regeneration.
Unknown2005-03-23 00:30:06
Weeell.. if it were for druids it'd SO need to be revamped. This doesn't even scream mage to me, aside from the Staff.. and even that isn't so mage-like.
Faethan2005-03-23 06:01:12
Am I right in thinking that the replicate skill basically shields you from four consecutive hits (2 hits for each of the 2 replications)? If so, that's so rediculously overpowered. A battle would look like this:
I cast replicate, I have 4 free hits.
I hit them, they hit me. I have 3 free hits left.
I hit them, they hit me. I have 2 free hits left.
I cast replicate, I have 4 free hits again.
Etc. until I win.
The replicate thing either needs to be a single hit or it needs to drop when you attack or move.
I cast replicate, I have 4 free hits.
I hit them, they hit me. I have 3 free hits left.
I hit them, they hit me. I have 2 free hits left.
I cast replicate, I have 4 free hits again.
Etc. until I win.
The replicate thing either needs to be a single hit or it needs to drop when you attack or move.
Acrune2005-03-24 03:51:14
I can't help but notice this whole skillset is rather... invincable. Stackable webs, 4 reflections in one go that dont go away until hit (mages can't even stack reflections, much less get 4 in one go), and reducing weapons to 25% damage, and total immunity to mages. Seems to be a bit much to me. If you want a skillset to be considered for implementation, it can't be one that guarentees you a win in every fight, even if it is power intensive.
Yawgmoth2005-03-24 22:14:05
Acrune, if you'll notice, we were trying to balance the knight damage out already. I was going to increase it to 75% damage instead of 25% damage for physical attacks.
However, in the case of replications, you're all right. The replications would need to A) have the power cost increased, have the hit modifier changed and C) dispel when the player attacks. (they would hang around when you moved, though)
I made them able to take 2 hits mostly because knights attack twice in one round of balance. If I took it down to one hit, the knights would go swipe (replication goes POOF) swipe (POOF again).
What I could do, though, would be to make it so that mages kill the replications in one hit. It could be RP'd as something like "the resonant frequencies of the mana imbued in the spell disrupt the matrix of the replication" or something like that (Less complex terms: Mana is bad for replications.)
But I agree, the replications need to be toned down a bit.
And addressing the webbing, I agree; if someone gets together a team of five people and stack-webs the opponent, there's no point. We could, however, make it so that webs from different people repel each other. (Player 1 casts web on the target. Player 2 casts web. Player 1's web repels Player 2's web. Player 1 casts web again). Then, provided that the equilibrium time for casting web was extended to balance this out, it'd make it nearly impossible to actually stack the webbing. It would only work against, say, an Igasho with- what is it, 18 size? Then it might stack. But that's what lowmagic summer is for- burns away the webbing.
Anyways, keep posting ideas!
However, in the case of replications, you're all right. The replications would need to A) have the power cost increased, have the hit modifier changed and C) dispel when the player attacks. (they would hang around when you moved, though)
I made them able to take 2 hits mostly because knights attack twice in one round of balance. If I took it down to one hit, the knights would go swipe (replication goes POOF) swipe (POOF again).
What I could do, though, would be to make it so that mages kill the replications in one hit. It could be RP'd as something like "the resonant frequencies of the mana imbued in the spell disrupt the matrix of the replication" or something like that (Less complex terms: Mana is bad for replications.)
But I agree, the replications need to be toned down a bit.
And addressing the webbing, I agree; if someone gets together a team of five people and stack-webs the opponent, there's no point. We could, however, make it so that webs from different people repel each other. (Player 1 casts web on the target. Player 2 casts web. Player 1's web repels Player 2's web. Player 1 casts web again). Then, provided that the equilibrium time for casting web was extended to balance this out, it'd make it nearly impossible to actually stack the webbing. It would only work against, say, an Igasho with- what is it, 18 size? Then it might stack. But that's what lowmagic summer is for- burns away the webbing.
Anyways, keep posting ideas!
Faethan2005-03-24 23:39:56
QUOTE
Control: Merge your shadeform (must be WHOLE) with another entity and gain temporary control over it. (Can merge with an NPC or player. Gives 5 seconds of control, then player is cast out and takes 500 damage and loses 500 mana. Works like any other control ability- can’t suicide or screw over the other player permanently.
How in the world would that work? Can I merge with an NPC and make them drop a quest item? Can I use them to attack someone? How do I know the attack syntaxes? What skills does an NPC have? Can I force an NPC to shout? Does my body remain behind when I merge with someone? (so that I could force them to give me things).
Elryn2005-03-25 00:03:42
Reading some of your reasoning, one thing that I would point out is that if you want this class to be excellent in defending against Knights, think up some RP reason. Why would shadow people fight mostly warrior-types, and why would they be best suited to fighting them rather than guardians, wiccans, mages or druids? It might help to establish the role they would play in an organization, as well.
Yawgmoth2005-03-26 03:24:17
Wait, what the... I posted this reply ages ago and it never showed up :-P
Anyways:
NPC possession would not be possible, that was an error on my part. The syntaxes and abilities would be far too complex, plus everything would be too unbalanced (a queen gravedigger lurching out of its hole to attack the player, etc)
I was looking around earlier for information on the Taint Wars; but was unable to find anything of use. The only thing I found on the Lusternia website was a set of council minutes talking about Celest's struggle to stop the taint cloud from advancing. Not much was said about the other races; just what happened to the members that Celest sent out.
What I was thinking of putting as the RP reason is that after the Gloriana forest was tainted and became Glomdoring, the Shadowbinders (or Shadowmancers, I can't decide which sounds cooler ) rose from the two fallen members of the inquisitive party that Celest sent out. Revived by the Taint, they disguised themselves to look as alive as they could and set out to convert as many Lusternians as they could to their new ideals. (The ideals were basically this: Join the Taint. Get strong. Kill things. Get stronger. Etc.) Unfortunately, very few people joined up with them.
However, the few people that did join with the budding group of Shadow(binder/mancer)s recieved great knowledge from bonding with the taint. While the other races in the Basin were struggling to survive, the motley beings that made up the Shadow (heck, I'll call them Shadowmancers, just because) mancers were gaining in power. They learned to manipulate the shadows.
However, (this is unchronicled in the histories on Lusternia; if the idea's submitted it may have to be added to make the entire introduction of Shadowbinding complete) Celest sent out another party to further investigate the Taint. This party was accompanied by armed knights, and was well-guarded so that the members of the party did not encounter the same fate as the ones before them.
The Shadowmancers came across the Celestian party and were attacked by the Knights in the group. They did look rather grotesque, after all, and the Knights thought that they were zombies or evil creatures. And perhaps they were. We'll leave that up to the in-game philosophers to decide
Anyways, to make a long story short, the Knights sent the party back when they realized that the Shadowmancers would not let the board members into the forest to investigate the Taint. The Knights stayed behind to try and eradicate the Shadowmancers.
The skirmish between the Knights and the Shadowmancers continued for several months, both sides taking heavy losses. The Shadowmancers soon realized that they had pretty much no hope if they didn't figure out a new anti-Knight technique, seeing as how the Knights got reinforcements every week from Celest.
The Shadowmancers created the Shadowform technique, making them take less damage from swords and clubs.
The Knights realized that they were pretty much screwed if they didn't finish off the Shadowmancers soon, and made a last desperate rush into the forest to kill off as many 'mancers as they could.
The Shadowmancers were slaughtered. Only two escaped.
The Knights thought all the Shadowmancers dead, and returned home.
The remaining Shadowmancers forged a pact with to preserve them until the Taint Wars were over. The god sealed their knowledge into a crystal and embedded them deep into the heart of the Master Ravenwood tree, and they have remained there ever since.
The way that this can tie into the game is that a shard of the crystal can break off and be lost somewhere in the Glomdoring forest. When it's found, the crystal will start muttering about how "they're trapped in the Ravenwood tree.... they're trapped in the Ravenwood tree..." and glow a bit. That'd be the beginning of a big quest to find it and restore the city.
Woooo. Long posty-thingy.
Back to reading A Modest Destiny.
http://www.squidi.net/amd/view.php?id=1
THE DREADED VAMPIRE LORD FLUFFY DEMANDS CHOCOLATE!
Anyways:
NPC possession would not be possible, that was an error on my part. The syntaxes and abilities would be far too complex, plus everything would be too unbalanced (a queen gravedigger lurching out of its hole to attack the player, etc)
I was looking around earlier for information on the Taint Wars; but was unable to find anything of use. The only thing I found on the Lusternia website was a set of council minutes talking about Celest's struggle to stop the taint cloud from advancing. Not much was said about the other races; just what happened to the members that Celest sent out.
What I was thinking of putting as the RP reason is that after the Gloriana forest was tainted and became Glomdoring, the Shadowbinders (or Shadowmancers, I can't decide which sounds cooler ) rose from the two fallen members of the inquisitive party that Celest sent out. Revived by the Taint, they disguised themselves to look as alive as they could and set out to convert as many Lusternians as they could to their new ideals. (The ideals were basically this: Join the Taint. Get strong. Kill things. Get stronger. Etc.) Unfortunately, very few people joined up with them.
However, the few people that did join with the budding group of Shadow(binder/mancer)s recieved great knowledge from bonding with the taint. While the other races in the Basin were struggling to survive, the motley beings that made up the Shadow (heck, I'll call them Shadowmancers, just because) mancers were gaining in power. They learned to manipulate the shadows.
However, (this is unchronicled in the histories on Lusternia; if the idea's submitted it may have to be added to make the entire introduction of Shadowbinding complete) Celest sent out another party to further investigate the Taint. This party was accompanied by armed knights, and was well-guarded so that the members of the party did not encounter the same fate as the ones before them.
The Shadowmancers came across the Celestian party and were attacked by the Knights in the group. They did look rather grotesque, after all, and the Knights thought that they were zombies or evil creatures. And perhaps they were. We'll leave that up to the in-game philosophers to decide
Anyways, to make a long story short, the Knights sent the party back when they realized that the Shadowmancers would not let the board members into the forest to investigate the Taint. The Knights stayed behind to try and eradicate the Shadowmancers.
The skirmish between the Knights and the Shadowmancers continued for several months, both sides taking heavy losses. The Shadowmancers soon realized that they had pretty much no hope if they didn't figure out a new anti-Knight technique, seeing as how the Knights got reinforcements every week from Celest.
The Shadowmancers created the Shadowform technique, making them take less damage from swords and clubs.
The Knights realized that they were pretty much screwed if they didn't finish off the Shadowmancers soon, and made a last desperate rush into the forest to kill off as many 'mancers as they could.
The Shadowmancers were slaughtered. Only two escaped.
The Knights thought all the Shadowmancers dead, and returned home.
The remaining Shadowmancers forged a pact with
The way that this can tie into the game is that a shard of the crystal can break off and be lost somewhere in the Glomdoring forest. When it's found, the crystal will start muttering about how "they're trapped in the Ravenwood tree.... they're trapped in the Ravenwood tree..." and glow a bit. That'd be the beginning of a big quest to find it and restore the city.
Woooo. Long posty-thingy.
Back to reading A Modest Destiny.
http://www.squidi.net/amd/view.php?id=1
THE DREADED VAMPIRE LORD FLUFFY DEMANDS CHOCOLATE!
Yawgmoth2005-03-26 17:55:35
Grr... People, pleeeeeeease respond!
*bump*
Edit:
All right, then. I'm submitting this before it gets stale.
Wish me luck
*bump*
Edit:
All right, then. I'm submitting this before it gets stale.
Wish me luck