Lucidans - what are they?

by Balor

Back to Ideas.

Balor2005-03-22 02:21:29
That's what it reads:
Descended from the Elder God Xyl, the lucidians are humanoids of living
crystal
. Their innate magical makeup make them resistant to magical
attacks, though their crystalline structure makes them quite vulnerable
to blunt attacks. This unique physique also regenerates while under the
open sun. They tend to the more arcane and scholarly professions. They
are generally more logical than emotional, and traditionally their
philosophers and mages have tried to discern the patterns of the universe
in order to understand the greater harmony of existence. This natural
affinity to cold logic was a founding principle of the city of Hallifax
(which became lost in time during the Taint Wars). The lucidians and the
trills were the primary builders of Hallifax, which was a city in the
clouds, an architectural wonder of crystal spires and aeromantic
engineering.

STATISTICS:
Strength : 10 Dexterity : 10 Constitution: 13
Intelligence: 14 Charisma : 11 Size : 12

ADVANTAGES:
o Have a racial language, lucidian.
o Have a level 2 resistance to magic.
o Regenerate mana and health, level 2 (outdoor daytime only).

DISADVANTAGES:
o Are susceptible to blunt damage, level 3.
o Gain experience more slowly, level 1.
______________

At first, let me state: I was really fashinated by this race. It, finally, offered something unique, as stated. But, as I played around a bit, I became more and more confused...
Ok, as a side note, one of better represenations of non-organic (silicon-based) sentient life-forms was in Lukianenko's "Line of Dreams". They looked like pillars of rock, supported by gravity fields, used same principles to manipulate stuff, and electromagetic waves to communicate with each other. They had to resonate with their bodies to speak in audible languages.
An other reason I've choosen a lucidian - because I like logic. But lucidians themselves are REALLY illogical... more precise, the are really dumbed-down in terms of their ablities. Let me come up with reasons why:
First and foremost, they should NOT eat organic food, breathe and bleed.
But it makes sence that they should not only gain regeneration, but nourishment from sunlight (perhaps not enough to compensate, but nonetheless)...
They should eat minerals instead of human food - think gems. High-quality gems should provide them with bonuses associated with high-qulity food and eating herbs/drinking potions.
Next, the should not be able to swim without some sort of magic or extra equipment - they'll drown like a... like a rock, precisely. Unless their crystals are made of very light minerals... but either way, they'll end up with massively negative floatage.
Next, they should be rather resistant to slashing damage (the blunt part of it should get them though), and completely immune to criticals that involve piercing inner organs... they don't have them, they are crystal! That's very important aspect.
A bit more on resistances - anyone knows about that for CPUs it's benefitial to be as cold as possible, while it's damaging to be exposed to the high temperatures.
Resulting in either Level 3 susceptible to heat and level 3 resistance to cold... or, much better, unique power to for their int and to depend on the temperature. The colder it is, the smarter they get. With extra high temperatures they can get various mind-related afflictions.
However, being rocks, heh, they should be slow as those:
Think level 3 slower balance (not equilibrium, in fact, due to their honed, CPU-like minds, it should be faster), and low dex.
And, they should have higher str, most definetely - after all, their body is made of crystals, and they must be quite strong to move it around.
So, how Lucidians should "work" in my book, thnking logically?

ADVANTAGES:
o Have a racial language, lucidian (and best it being *telepathic*).
o Have a level 2 resistance to magic.
o Have a level 1 resistance to cutting damage.
o Regain equilibrium faster, level 1.
o Regenerate health level 1 (outdoor daytime only).
o Regenerate mana level 3 (outdoor daytime only).
*I think crystalline structures should not be able to regenerate easily. But mana regeneration is reasonable enough.*.
o Immune to cold attacks, instead gaining a temporal increase in intelligence.
o Immune to diseases and poisons.
o Immune to bleeding.
o Do not require air and organic food.
DISADVANTAGES:
o Are susceptible to blunt damage, level 3.
o Heat damage drains them of intelligence and mana, instead of health.
o Cannot use potions, salves and herbs.
o Cannot be healed by spells that mend flesh.
o Use gems instead of healing potions, herbs and food.
o Have level 3 slower balance.
o Cannot swim normally.
o Gain experience more slowly, level 1. (Due to their minds being a bit inflexible)
_________
I understand that it’s a lot of work.
But, don’t you think, that, if you made something, you should be doing it right, or not at all?
Or my image of Lucidians is wrong? The *help* describe them rather unambiguously, though.
And for them being as they are... that requires too much suspension of disbelief to play. Bleeding people of crystal who consume chicken legs for breakfast? *shudders*
Unknown2005-03-22 02:25:01
That would create one broken race....
Balor2005-03-22 02:27:26
Which means they should not be created in the first place.
After all, it's like if Trills were made unable to fly because they'd make them 'broken'.
Unknown2005-03-22 02:34:27
QUOTE
Ok, as a side note, one of better represenations of non-organic (silicon-based) sentient life-forms was in Lukianenko's "Line of Dreams".


This is Lusternia, real world concepts don't apply here. Whatever is created, is by the design of Estarra and her imagination, it doesn't have to fit some other mold put forth by someone else.
Unknown2005-03-22 02:38:33
Undead shouldn't have to eat also, yes, it's not all about logic. Or, you know, they're living crystals, not animated crystals. dunno.gif
Sylphas2005-03-22 03:06:53
The first thing I thought was that that would be another way Bonecrushers would be better than Blademasters.
Drago2005-03-22 03:28:53
I see a lot of problems with your suggestions, the biggest one being this-
QUOTE
o Cannot swim normally.

Summoned into water?

Dead because you can't leave.
Ixion2005-03-22 03:42:21
ADVANTAGES:
o Can live

DISADVANTAGES:
o Can be killed

There, it's settled.
Balor2005-03-22 12:06:25
QUOTE
This is Lusternia, real world concepts don't apply here. Whatever is created, is by the design of Estarra and her imagination, it doesn't have to fit some other mold put forth by someone else.

I understand that. And, for some reasons, I suspected replies like this.
But, in this case, it's not about "fitting some mold". It's about adhering to the most basic of logic. You think logic is too tight a mold? Then why it exists in this world at all? Heh, now what would be fun - a world without logic at all! But as impossible to properly made as a world that conforms to logic 100%, though.
More then that, I'll not be mentioning it, if the other parts of this MUD were not done with such painstaking detail. Food, combat injury system, spell and hit damage descriptions... it's all VERY good.
But lucidians... they stand out of it. They have no flesh to burn or cook, no organs to burst or pierce, no blood to bleed, they don't need organic food because they are composed of different materials, etc.
So, in this case, all this great detail is working AGAINST your suspension of disbelief, actively undermining it. At least, if you really like logic (and you will not choose a lucidian if you didn’t, I guess...).
If we were talking about another MUD, with no food, injuries, detailed damage description, etc (not that I'd play one like it anyway)... Like, with simple damage messages like "Your sword slash ***RAVAGES*** someone!" - no matter, what it is - flesh, crystal or metal.
So, I fear, lucidians were added in a hurry or without much thought. They break nearly flawless impression into shattered fragments, like a critical hit from Bonecrusher.
Again, it's like you if you'd made a perfect fantasy setting, with spells, bows, etc... but, in a whim, later added a bunch of heavy machineguns- "Just for extra coolness!".
But, for it not to become too unbalanced, made HMGs fire with speed of crossbow, and have range of an arrow.
So, ultimately, you end up with a screwed setting and nerfed guns.
How am I’m supposed to play a role of lucidian, especially given my limited experience, after finding out that supposedly logical lucidians are walking logic flaws?
Or, please, change or somehow clarify in help file: how creatures made of crystal (and, no doubt, hard mineral crystal, since they are vulnerable to crushing damage) can bleed, why they need air and organic food, can catch diseases, etc.
Do it right, or not at all! If you want to introduce a unique race to your setting - make sure all their uniqueness fit in the game system.
Like, I’ve played an other mud, much simpler then this one, not commercial, and they had golems as a PC race. So, they couldn’t be healed by healing spells, poisoned, stunned, didn’t have to eat, had a lot of natural armor... but didn’t regenerate health, had to use repair to fix themselves, and a lot of useful spells failed to work on them, along with all potions... yea, yea, you don’t have to fit some ‘molds’. But what if this mold is called Quality?
P.S.
QUOTE
Summoned into water?
Dead because you can't leave.

Well,
a. They don't (or shouldn't, at least) breathe, therefore, they will not die there at once, even w/o ability to swim.
b. They can have a unique garment, like a life vest, to allow them to swim, or a simple spell with similar effect.
c. You can always ask someone in your sity or a guild to summon you back, or teleport to them.
Manjanaia2005-03-22 12:37:48
Well Lusternia isn't on Earth. There are many similarities obviously. Who says the laws of physics we adhere to apply here?
Manjanaia2005-03-22 12:47:02
Furthermore, when you look at the entire game, this is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. Which part of being able to pray to the Divinities and sprouting wings (Wings, Cosmic) is logical? Or being able to call a giant magical turtle (Turtle, Aquamancy) is logical? Cosmicfire, staff, radiance, toadcurse. All illogical skills. This is not a real world. I come here to escape reality. The more illogical, the better (to an extent anyway).
Balor2005-03-22 15:45:57
*Sighs with regret.*
Did you read what I've posted above?
There is BIG difference of making a world where exists magic, and, say, making a world where there is no friction. For instance, you'll not be able to walk there. You body will have to work by vastly different principles, and will, most undoubtedly, not look one of human at all, etc, etc.
There are things that are bettor not left touched, if you want your world to be believable. Why magic is so nice in that respect? Because it exploits flaws or simply uses unknown laws of physics in some respects... Anyway, if you'll show a lighter to some tribal, who always knew that fire can be only obtained by finding a place where lighting stuck, or quickly turning wooden sticks - he'll, most likely, think that it's magic.
But there is a logic to magic too, right? You have to pray to the right Celestial, say right words, you have to spend mana/power, etc... just like a 'magic' lighter uses gas.
If you setting allow magic - it's fine. But if something does not adhere to ANY laws - that's really bad. One of them beings bleeding, and consuming herbs and organic food to survive - while made of solid mineral crystals.
Would you be happy if swords and heavy maces did the least damage and light daggers - the most, to absolutely same targets (while being slower and all)? If, after being hit in the leg, you'll start to bleed from your ears? And that is having in mind that you, supposedly, have human anatomy!
And besides, there are humans in this realm. They seem to survive here good enough, and they are ordinary humans from all perspectives.
Therefore, the most basic laws of physics CANNOT be different - the humans will not survive otherwise.
I'll, myself, will be delighted to play some game that have vastly different rules of physics - perhaps, just to see how it works out. But only so far it's different rules are followed in the game itself. See above about 'frictionless' world... one thing when the 'global' rules are different, but all everything in the world follows them.
And an other thing when they are broken in a whim.
Or, again, I want explanation, LOGICAL explanation, why lucidians are like this and nothing else. Of course, you can always say: Imagine it yourself!
But, admit it, it's a cheap trick.
Just like if the combat system looked like:
X hits Y.
Y hits X.
X hits Y.
Repeat n times until X or Y is dead.
Now, that's a wide space for imagination! So, it makes such combat system perfect? Then why are you in this mud, where it's MOST “imperfect”?
Unknown2005-03-22 16:10:13
QUOTE(Balor @ Mar 22 2005, 12:06 PM)
But lucidians... they stand out of it. They have no flesh to burn or cook, no organs to burst or pierce, no blood to bleed, they don't need organic food because they are composed of different materials, etc.
78495


QUOTE(Balor @ Mar 22 2005, 12:06 PM)
Or, please, change or somehow clarify in help file: how creatures made of crystal (and, no doubt, hard mineral crystal, since they are vulnerable to crushing damage) can bleed, why they need air and organic food, can catch diseases, etc.
78495


It doesn't say anywhere (I suppose) that thier internal organs are also made of crystal. Maybe it's just the crystalline skin (and maybe bones). It would explain blunt susceptibility quite nicely.
Changing a lot of rules and messages just for one race doesn't seem reasonable, but maybe a bit of clarification in the helpfile would be good, for picky players. wink.gif
Balor2005-03-22 18:45:12
Well, I'm not "picky". I'm just concerned that creatures, that supposed to be logical, are, in fact, the most illogical of them all smile.gif.
QUOTE
It doesn't say anywhere (I suppose) that their internal organs are also made of crystal. Maybe it's just the crystalline skin (and maybe bones). It would explain blunt susceptibility quite nicely.

But the help file does say that they are crystalline themselves, not just bones, that's for sure. And how do you imagine 'crystalline skin'? Covered by crystal scales? But what for? Just be extra vulnerable for blunt? tongue.gif
And just skin and bones, I guess, will not be enough for regenerative factor to kick in.
But I can settle a good explanation after all.
I'm just don’t like the fact that I don't get what I was promised, so to speak.
P.S.
Plant people, while still being unique, and having about same stats (only, of course, fire vulnerability instead of blunt) would be much more logical...
But, for sure, they’d not build any crystal sky cities... And as I understand, Halifax will eventually be ‘unfrozen’? I hope, when it’ll happen, at least some clarification (and, I hope, fixes) would be done for lucidian race.
Richter2005-03-22 19:07:06
I think part of it is determined by how Lucidians are supposed to look. Do they look like that one ice pokemon, or do they look like the ice titan from Kingdom Hearts/Hercules? Bulky and rigid, or jagged and human-like?

I'm too lazy to post pics.
Rashidat2005-03-22 19:58:01
There are many different types of crystal. It's easier to try and bend the race to fit the realities of gameplay. If they bleed, then they must have organs. If they need to eat, then they must have a system for breaking carbon based material into energy. If mercury is a metal that is liquid at room temperature, perhaps there is room for a fictional crystaline creature that has many organic qualities.
Amaru2005-03-22 20:01:25
Hahahahahaha, can I just say how funny I find it that someone read HELP LUCIDIAN in Lusternia and then complained using an essay on silicon-based lifeforms to prove why it doesn't make sense.

Nice one, Einstein.

laugh.gif

Balor2005-03-22 20:10:02
Well, since they are called humanoid, they must look like golems from NWN, I guess, only made of crystals and human-sized.
Of course, that begs the question how their joints look like, but that's too much to ask... but anyway, if their are made of crystal (btw, what kind of crystal, anyway?), they should not, at the very least, bleed.
Not that I'm asking for it because I'm very interested in that advantage, but because otherwise it's really weird.
Of course, them being half-crystalline, half-organic would fix that... at least, a bit. (Like if they are permanently Stoneskinned). But that have to be thought-out, and corrected in the helpfile... to the very least, if you don't want to make them really unique (which, like I mentioned, is a lot of work indeed).
Well, my ideas that they are would be like golem - tough, slow to move, but powerful and quick thinkers... + temperature issues and poison/disease immunity.
If you think it's way overpowered - make add them level 3 slow learning. (Since it's purely gameplay thingy, I don't care).
Anyway, it depends if you really want them to be a unique race... not weird and nerfed.
Shamarah2005-03-22 20:14:04
Sorry, while most of your points make sense, the golden equation overrules all:

Balance > Logic/Realism

Besides, you could say that they're bleeding liquid crystal, their crystalline organs are being hacked at, and their metabolism is able to use real food. It's not as if they don't have digestive organs.
Hazar2005-03-22 20:14:10
I actually started an essay of my own, once, explaining how their physiology works. I'll summarize.

They are innately magical beings. This is why they have magic resistence. And their blood? It's a sort of chemical goo that's moved by that magic in order to shift the geodes which make up their body.

Alternatively, you can say that the crystal they're made of - other than the skin - is strangely, magically maleable, and when the skin is ruptured, some of that flows out.