Its just a flawed argument.

Taint by its very definition ruins things. Changes them into some horrible demonic unnatural form.
Hence, Taint + Nature = Demonic, ruined Nature.

You can't just say, well, its still nature - its just refitted and improved. You can't say Glomdoring proves Taint is part of Nature without also saying Nil proves Taint is part of the Light.

I didn't say Taint is a PART of Nature. I said Taint is used by Nature for self-improvement.

That Taint is a tool of Nature then, part of its growth. Whatever, the meaning is the same.

Not really. I used to think that, and it took Auseklis like twenty minutes to get me thinking otherwise.

*mutter* Fine, then I'll use your exact wording if we have to be so precise.

You can't say Glomdoring proves Taint is used by Nature for self-improvement without also saying Nil proves Taint is used by celestial powers for self-improvement.

Well, there isn't much information on that, but why would you assume it wasn't? Unlike Gaudiguch/Hallifax there was no clear rift between Shallamar/Celestia.

And...if that's the case, then Glomdoring isn't still Nature merged with the taint. Glomdoring is the opposite of Nature now. *shrug*

I think it's really, really stupid to just keep argueing this. I'm just going to leave it as-is. Auseklis says the Glomdoring is Nature. Just because you throw some jerk seasoning on a chicken breast DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT IT IS STILL A CHICKEN BREAST.

Only mother, maiden and crone out of the wicca skillset use moonhart power, the others use any, which would suggest that there's only going to be three different fae for the night coven.

Then Nil would be Celestia with aforementioned jerk seasoning (whatever that is) on it. :/ But we both know that's not the case, don't we? Why would there be a difference?

Your views, Shiri, are now null and void for not knowing what jerk seasoning is. Next?

Although, as has been pointed out, Shallamar/Celestia were not the same thing. Similiar, but not the same. The Light's gone, as it left Shallamar because of the Taint. But it's still Shallamar - They're still half-formed Elder Gods. They're still the Holy Emenations, with a bit of seasoning thrown in.

Glomdoring's still Nature, with a bit of seasoning thrown in. It doesn't mean we follow the same set of ideals we originally did, but that does not mean we aren't a part of Nature. Just because you have Moon and we have Night innately means we won't be the same.

You're argueing that because something's added, it's nothing like it's original. And it just gives me ticks.

Why are Shallamar and Celestia not basically the same? There were only really differences in the names, eh.

Because something's added -that completely twists its form, nature, identity, whatever you want to call it-, yes, it's nothing like its original. It's like um...ever played Silent Hill series? It's like that. Silent Hill w/blood/rust/what my brother suspects is faeces but I'm fairly convinced isn't/chains = Glomdoring/Nil, Silent Hill w/happy people = Celestia/Serenwilde.

And if you don't know what I mean, 1. Get Silent Hill, and 2. I'll try and think of another example.

Considering that the half-formed each seem to symbolize a facet of something, and together they symbolize a whole, I'd guess that the Emanations probably composed something different than the Supernals.

Your simplifying the seren RP waaaay to much.

Serenwilde and the communes, were ALWAYS against the exansionist policies of cities, and the way they that they kept trying to change nature, cut down trees, expoit recoursces etc.

Since Celest was not happy with the Taint, and it's release resulted in the desctrution of themselves, its perfenctly reasonable for serenwilde to say "See what your 'explorations' have done!?" The Taint was an obvious thing that changed things, and in many cases not to the way the people of serenwilde at that time saw as constructive. However, now that the Kethuru aspect of the Taint is gone, it is no longer destructive in the way it was before. Sure they still don't trust it, but its no different than them not trusting the Light.

So, the Taint is AWEFUL, purely becuase the Taint is not Mother Moon, or White Hart and that is who you worship. Serenwilde did not worship Raven, or Lake, or Bear or any of those spirits, only Hart and Moon. so If the Taint would have destroyed or changed Hart and Moon than that would be an Awefull thing. But since it doesn't, right now your Negetive attidutes are towards Magnagora, the expansionist city, not necessarily the Taint. Irrational Hatred would make peole unable to seperate the old Taint from the new taint, but reasonable thinking, on an ooc metaworld level should be able to see the difference.

Yeah, the plane of Shallamar was made of completely different things than Celestia. Every Cosmic plane was different, so whatever Shallamar once emitted surely wasn't the Light of Celestia. So, the Taint didn't combine with the Light, or something like that. It ended corrupting another power, another kind of vibration.

Regarding Glomdoring, Glomdoring is nature. Maybe even Nature gone wrong. But it is still Nature. Just the same as to what can happen to a zone after a catastrophe, the after repopulation/adaptation. Glomdoring is proof of that. Still, it was a forced change which was bad, but now that things have changed and been as such for years it has no other remedy other than be an accepted change in Nature. Or else, you'd see everything completely dead. I think that the Druids from Glomdoring will possess the Nature skill and then maybe possess an altered version of Druidry as specialization. One that reflects Glomdoring's nature=merciless. Just like the Mages, they all have Elementalism, but all their specializations are different to represent the element they follow. What is Glomdoring's nature? Imo, it is a Tainted Nature.

Well, it makes sense from the perspective that Celestia would have an opposite, on account of Vortex/Continuum, to say that Shallamar would have been different, but there's no hard evidence to suggest that. I mean, look at Lord Gorgaliel's title. He could have been a slightly more elegant Raziela. Things like that.

I have this feeling that Celestia was a more judgemental, warfare based, while you had the pacifistic Shallamar, with Gorgaliel the Peacemaker, and one of them was a bard, another was just some beautiful priss who slept with Gorg, Luciphage was the Lord of Compassion - it sounds to me we're talking the structured, (I'd say offensive but I don't mean that - organized seems more appropriate) organized Celestia versus the disorganized but peaceful, loving, snuggly Shallamar.

But... I mean, Raziela. And to an extent Japhiel. Besides, what (at that time) did Methrenton have to be warlike ABOUT? And peacemaker could easily be a very violent term. You know, it sounds it. Isn't there a peacemaker kind of weapon anyway? It's like a cudgel. I dunno.

Japhiel is not snuggly.

And yeah, I agree with Erion.

Yea, peacemaker is a weapon. I think it is a cudgel, yea. Also a popular name for guns.

But, look at it. Methrenton the Warrior, entirely offensive, while you had Shakiniel, bringing defense, Japhiel the Merciful (It's still JUDGING someone) and then Elohora, the Holy Lady. All four represent different aspects of what one would easily view as a necessity to a fuedal lord/lady - strength to fight back, strength to defend his/her people, wisdom to judge them and others, and Elohora could easily be viewed as the celestial incarnation of that lord/lady. Raziela represents compassion, to go with the wisdom to judge someone - one cannot be all facts and details, one must also embrace the softer aspects of things in order to fairly judge anyone.

But Raziela is only one softy. Shallamar was entirely softies.

Have you ever been heretic/infidel/judged?

It shows the really brutal side of Japhiel - Merciless Justice. Raziela counter-balances this, but only to an extent.

Edit - Well, I guess you could call it Merciful Justice, as he gives them the peace of death...