Daganev is. Or if he isn't, some idiot's going to believe him anyway. Daganev! If you're not serious, stop it! You're going to confuse someone!

Estarra said it -might- be possible. Raezon might have had a bad idea, but it was not his idea to try to change glomdoring. He merely suggested a method that might make things Easier for Viravain, I doubt he'd want Kethuru released, even if it was in a mild form.

However, Lisarea and Viravain with the active support of many in Serenwilde wished the forest to be changed. They could not be content with the changed forest, because they wanted everything to be the way -they wanted things- Much like how Cities think and opperate. If Serenwilde was still with its roots, they would say, let glomdoring suffer its own curse, just don't mess with us, we have what we need, much how they responded to Celest being in trouble.

Raezon would not have suggested an idea that would help deTaint Glomdoring unless releasing the Taint of Kethuru to some extent would aid him in some form.

I never said Serenwilde advocated the use of the seal.

Still, though... They wish to blend a Goddess' own private desires to restore Gloriana to ours. Which was not the case. Both people were working seperately, and hey it happened to be both had the same goal. BUT Viravain's a Goddess, so of course She has more power and would be able to do something more than Serenwilde (just forest Glomdoring, how funny is that?). So Serenwilde basically withdhrew to let Viravain do Her magic.

Blame= Raezon+Viravain.

Edit: In my opinion, Raezon and Fain both sold their souls to the Devil (Kethuru). Raezon wants the knowledge of the Soulless, why not create a window of opportunity that might allow Him to have a small taste of such knowledge? In enters naive Viravain. She is probably one of the only divines capable of manipulating the Nature seal, thanks to her Natural spirit (speculation). He conned Her. That is what happened.

But if we didn't advocate use of the seal, we're not the ones to blame for this, as it was the entire cause of the problem (NOT deTainting the place, which worked fine, and was restoring nature.) So you can stop trying to say we need to get back in touch with our roots and change our attitude so forth. Okay? Unless Magnagora is going to kick Raezon out and enemy him for this disaster now.

You have to be a bit more subtle. I'm not talking about blame. I'm talking about a look at priorities. Serenwilde should learn that its not good for them to advocate the change of nature, just like it was not good for them to advocate Celest trying to reach the astral planes.

Without Ravenwood changing, the detainting of glomdoring was just superficial and could have been retainted. Thats an opinion, not a fact.

It would have taken another Divine to do it, and I don't think cleansing the hardened Taint out of an area is "just superficial", unless you don't object to the Megalith being restored to the Stone of Truth because you can just cover it in Geomancy again.

And if there's no blame, there's no need to shift priorities. Our approach, or at least the approach we advocated, worked fine. It was only when Viravain went further than what she had been doing, which we didn't advocate (that word is getting old now) that it all went wrong.

No, it would have needed Kethuru's release to retaint it.

Well, and that.

Or another Creator, but a stronger one. Raezon said that even though he was stronger than Viravain, He could not undo what a Creator has done.

How isn't it different to try "manipulate" something that is already on Prime by means of reforestation to what Celest did? Celest went to the unknown to see what they would find. Serenwilde already knows Glomdoring, they were once sister communes and now they are enemies. It wasn't like we were meddling with unknown magic to do anything.

Oh yeah. I lose track of all those circle things.

(P.S: Is that thing that Estarra said in your sig real, or is it part of a Guidoised Rhysus log? )

She shouted it right after the Seal of Nature broke. I kept the log, but I almost immediately snapped it into my sig.

Fine, don't learn from your mistakes.

They're not OUR mistakes. They're RAEZON'S and VIRAVAIN'S mistakes.

Daganev, we do learn from our mistakes. Unfortunately, the Gloriana incident isn't our mistake. Still we can learn from it. Can you? If you can, learn to know your Gods. Raezon wants the Knowledge of the Soulless, He is desperate for knowledge, He would do many things to obtain said knowledge... but I doubt even Him is capable of discern every possibility.

Edit: Viravain ripping off the seal is the equivalent to Pandora opening the Box that Hermes gave her, to Eve eating the apple to... someone being naive and falling to ill advice. And that advice DID NOT COME FROM US.

Serenwilde didn't try to influence Viravain to cleanse Gloriana, but a number of Serenwilders did, Shiri. We just didn't go drawing attention to those efforts because secrecy was just sensible strategy. And still being maintained, so this stays OOC.

However, we certainly did not encourage Her to Raezon's plan. I wasn't online at the time, but I don't think we even heard about it before it happened. If we did, I'm sure we discouraged it.

We encouraged Her to do what she was doing so successfully for a while, cleansing one acre at a time by Her own power. Prophecy warned us last year that what She needed was courage, which we did our best to give Her, and that's what led (I think!) to the cleansing. But the same prophecy also told us that She needed to be protected from "dark words" or it would all fail. It didn't say just how badly it would fail!

I think if anything the lesson we are being taught is not that we shouldn't try to purify, just that we have to get rid of Raezon first.

I agree with whatever you said, Gwylifar.