Not that I dont agree with you but....


The Isrealites when they TOOK what is now Isreal, yes... TOOK were historically at the time the most feared army in the known world (their known world)... both historical fact and the bible back this up... no they diddnt go on crusades, the just wiped out nearly every living person in the territory that they claimed to be the promised land.

Actually, The israelites were the most LAUGHED at army in the known world at that time. THe midinaites would not let them enter and said go away or we will kill you. The Amalekites attacked the Israelites as soon as they were able to reach them. The Philistines destroyed the Israeli army many times after the Isarealites conqured Israel.


King Soul was told by G-d to kill every last man woman and child including the sheep, but He did not. The Israelites when conquering Israel were told to let no nation live, but they dissobeyed and made peace with the Gadonites who not a few years later came back to try to conqure the land back. And the Samaritans also.

Everyone has his own morality actually. I said that because it's immoral from my point of view, but it's his choice.


When someone is a living shell, he can't tell you anything, and also can't change his/her mind. Cause there's no mind anymore. Brain is dead.

However, if you want to really get secular about suicide, I'd look at is as any other business contract.

When a company produces an item that is unique, they get patent rights on that item. The company is in charge of what happens to that item and if you want to use it you have to pay them for its usage.

Suicide therefore should be moral if and when the person commiting suicide give payment owned to the people who supported them till that point. If the person suiciding pays for all the food they ate freely, and all the clothing and shelter they got, then it would be acceptable for them to take thier own life without permision from those who raise d them. Otherwise, I'd say you need permision first.

If your brain is dead than its not really a question anymore because you are Dead. Why seperate the Concious from the uncounsious mind if religion plays no part in this? Freud said you are as much your uncounsious mind as you are your concious mind, and it might even be argued that your concious mind isn't really you, its you battling with the ideas others have given you.

I have to go, I'm sure I'll argue more points when I come back, don't wait for me.

*holds her head and screams*

--deletes what she was initially gonna blab--

Suicide it rarely the "fault" of the person who dies... theres a lot of mental abuse and often degredation that occurs before a person is driven far enough to where they see they only cure to their pain and suffering is to die and the quickest way to die is to kill themself. In a lot of cases the person gives off a million signs that people dont notice or notice and fail to care or act upon. No, Im not saying I blame people for being -censored- or that its not the suicidals fault.. its just fact. Its the persons fault for having weakness and ending their life because of the actions of other people, its the peoples fault that they dont pick up on the usually blatant signs and take that person from the ledge. Usually all it takes is one person to notice you to bring you back from the blade. (And for those of you who dont know me and my past, no, Im not just talkin out my arse.)

I didn't mean literally dead, sorry if that was confusing, but of course if brain is dead you -are- dead, I meant rather situation like with that woman - there's no activity of these parts of it which are responsible for you being a person you are, for mind. And there won't be cause that part of the brain is damaged/destroyed.

Nepthysia - so it can't be immoral then if it's not their fault, can it? Christianity considers suicide mortal sin for which you go straight to hell, but it's not really your fault so you're punished for something you didn't do! That's almost funny. Then again, not really.

Much like those darn evil babies with that original sin of theirs, but it's probably best not to get into religion if we can help it.

You shouldn't be able to commit suicide because you owe something to your family...? That's a bit of crock, man. What about suicides to get AWAY from those people? You don't want to live, but since you were, in essence, forced to live, you can't release yourself from some obvious sort of pain?

Hells, I'm not out to commit suicide, but still. I owe nothing to my family, and certainly not just for the fact they created me. I shouldn't need permission from them to do anything to my body I want to do with it.

My father owes ME several thousand dollars, and cannot remember my name or birthday, which is just 4 days after his - the only time he has called over the years was to make sure that 'April 14, 1987' was my birthday, for taxes. My mother remarried a few years after divorcing that idiot, and lives with a new idiot who neither created me, supports me, and in reality just hinders me.

The only person in my family I owe a damned thing to is my Grandmother, and she died just one month before I graduated from highschool. She lived through a LOT of pain, taking at least a dozen pills a day for it. She did that, right up to when her car crashed into a tree on the way to volunteer at a kitchen, and she was killed from the impact.

That is not true, murder is generally one of those concepts that is accepted cross-culturally as wrong. Along with lieing, stealing, etc. Certain religions might lay moral overtones on these acts but they don't control them.

As for the topic:

I don't think suicide is immoral because I don't believe there is any one set of morals that can apply unilaterally. What is right to me can be wrong to you, but that's ok.

I also don't think it is an act of weakness so much as it is an act of desperation. People who feel the need to end their lives generally come from a place where they see no other viable option. They don't understand how it could be possible to keep living the way they are now.

Where is the shame in that? Where is the crime, the 'sin', in feeling as though you have no where else to turn?

This is not to say I glorify suicide by any means. I just understand what it is and how someone can get to that point.

First off, Im not a christian so I really dont care if yer god thinks its a mortal sin or not. Secondly its a mortal sin because you are TAKING A LIFE, whether its YOURS or not doesnt matter. I placed fault upon BOTH the suicidal and the people around that person who failed to see his/her intentions. If you cut your own throat or wrists you cant be told youre not to blame.



If youre talking about abortion, lets not go there -.-

Original sin, christianity thing. You supposedly bear it until you get baptism.

I'm talking about original sin, not abortion, but let's not go there anyway.

But...yes, it does matter. Because it's yours, not someone else's. Same reason you can destroy your own possessions if you want, they're yours, not anyone else's. I don't blame ANYONE, because there's nothing to be blamed FOR. And to be honest, if someone's in such a state they consider that they need to be released from life, I'm not sure whether I'd consider someone who tried to stop them for the sake of remaining alive more of a friend than someone who realised what they needed to do and tried to help them as best they can. I'm not idealistic enough to say that there's always a better way. 'cause "better", here, is rather subjective.

lol.. welllll I could only think that being half passed through a person would be an -original- sin the first time a baby came along. -.- but maybe I have too much eddie izzard in my system

...I have no idea what you just said.

Its alright Shiri, I expect it to go over several heads -.-

Er...roighto!

Many babies have been born, thus the sin is no longer original? . Second-hand sin! (and third-hand, forth-hand, 100th-hand, etc)