I'm curious what people suggested to make mages less demesne dependent, and I'm too lazy to go through the post where people argue about it myself.

So, feel free to post your ideas here. Not only demesne downgrades but how you would upgrade their non-demesne skills.

I would give illusions the ability to go before a sling as well as after, and decrease supersling to 1 power.

Two words, Dwarf Geomancer Basically your objective is to run in there, tank all the damage and chasm, perfect for spammy spammy fights where no one can see whats going on. Aquamancers and Hartstone need their demesne abilities or the ones that are in the room to fight, problem, your enemies just walk away, though they can do this with Chasm, you have a higher chance to kill with chasm

Make Ancestralcurse uncurable? Mages have phantoms, at least, Hartstone have a similar ability that's worthless.

Giving an illusions/stag ability to mask runes/motes would go a long way in that direction, but it'd be seriously overpowered if demesne effects stay the way they are.

Guys, you fail to realize that mages were created to be dependant on their demesnes. Why would they change it so we wouldn't be dependant on them? You ask for too much.

Because demesnes need downgrading because they're ridiculous. Whether you agree that they're ridiculous in solo combat is one thing, but I don't think -anyone- disagrees that the fact their effects can attack entire armies over huge spans simultaneously means that in team combat mages are overpowered. But if you just downgrade demesnes, you have to upgrade their non-demesne related skills, or it just won't really be fair on them. See?

They need to find a way to differentiate a mage demesne meant for attacking one on one from a mage demesne attacking an army, then. Perhap make it so that whenever there's a certain amount of enemies in the demesne, the effects get a bit weaker? But there's no need to completely overhaul mages.

Well, potentially it might be something like, each demesne effect only attacks a random one of the enemies you declared...or something. But I have no idea how that would work.

But given the cries for demesnes to be downgraded, Jello's just ninjaing the changes with ideas, that's all.

That's a good idea Revan, the timer could just slow down by like 2 seconds per person, or something similar. Or it could have a contagion like effect. It will always hit one person. If there are two, it will always hit one, and has a 75% chance of hitting the other. If there are three, it will always hit one, have a 75% chance of hitting another, and a smaller chance of hitting the third, and so on.

Oh, yeah, forgot about contagion.

I think a change to be like contagion would be perfectly acceptable. Lets us actually fulfill our role (we're MEANT to control territory and attack whole armies), but not be overpowered to any real degree.

Just trans arts and you can get rid of phantom.

Trans arts AND 8 POWER AND IT COSTS NO POWER TO CAST. And Ancestralcurse, in complete reversal, costs 8 power and can be cured with trans discipline with a 3/4 rate of success for 250 mana.

Well, if you want, we could ask for it to be made curable by the arts skill, and not cost any power. That'd work for me, even if it doesn't quite make as much sense.

Decreasing it by 2 seconds per person would be ridiculous.

Demesnes are already the slowest passive effect in the game at 10 seconds, demons hit at 8 and contagion is a pretty stable 9. And you want them slowed down to 12, 14, 16 if there's only three enemies in them? 26 seconds a tick if there's a lot of people? You have to suggest reasonable changes if you expect to be listened to.

How many of those demon effects hit all three of said enemies? 16 seconds means those demesne effects hit 4 people, where a demon would hit two.

EDIT: And compare what's supposed to be one of the better angel powers, angel kneel, which stuns and prones. Compare THAT hitting two enemies in 16 seconds with jellies doing stun and 550 damage in the same time period to FOUR people. Over a distance. With all the other things like currents going off too. I STILL know which I'd rather have.

A: Past a certain speed, any moron who can type can cure perfectly with just the help file with the cures. 16 seconds is well within that time frame. Assuming you have a clue, you can cure AND fight back in that amount of time.

B: If I don't have a demesne hitting often enough, my runes aren't worth much of a damn against people who can cure, because they don't stack all that well. Not saying they're worthless, just that by themselves they're a bit weak.

C: That's what mages/druids are FOR. We control territory, and can beat the hell out of people who come into it.

Honestly, I'd almost just like to lose the whole demesne concept (cool as it is), and get something that is a bit easier to balance, just so people will stop whining without us getting nerfed all to hell.

I would like to point out in this discussion that unlike many other passive effects in the game, demesne's are not portable in any way.

I can't bring my demesne to my enemy (well, unless they are silly enough to sit and wait while I make one), I have to hope my enemy will come to me. This makes mages/druids excellent at defending territory, but rather disadvantaged in aggression. Incidentally, I have transcendant druidry, yet I have never had my demesne kill anyone by itself.

The issue is not the number of enemies that find it difficult to enter your domain, but rather it is the scope to which your domain can expand.

Sometimes, I agree with Sylphas in that I would prefer a different implementation of demesnes to make them a bit more interesting and dynamic. But then, I really can't suggest any alternatives so its not a valid complaint.

Demense can be broken, although not always easily. Which negates one of our specializations. Can that happen to any other class? Demesnes can span alot of ground, but in combat they are pretty static. Can that happen to any other classes? Demenses are generally slower than the follower mobiles. In exchange, we can stack a few effects at once, while other classes have theirs more evenly spaced. Mages generally have the least health of the other classes, and one of the slower balances if you count a Viscanti Mage. Our power generally is based on where we are, either inside or outside, our demense. Other classes have the same strength wherever they go (with a few expections). Did you complain out a Druids Grove in other realms? Why are you complaining about a watered down grove now?

WATERED DOWN GROVE?! Yes, they can be broken. But it's a lot easier to kill an entity. ...static. Uhhh. I'm not sure how applicable "static" is when it spreads over 400 rooms. That doesn't NEED to be mobile. It covers all the damn space you need to move IN. An angel does one affliction every 8. A mage does like 10 every 10. Viscanti mages don't have slower balance.

Just to correct those inaccuracies. But yes, you see, that's the entire point. It's been explained that demesnes are way too good in team combat, and it's arguable that they are in solo too. It's not good to be strong in BOTH areas. So the demesnes need tweaking. But that would mean that mages are weaker. So we're suggesting ways of making them less demesne-dependent.