Murphy2005-04-07 15:15:08
the way see it, moondancers were meant to be the most mana intensive class around, to make up for their lack of tarot.....and their crappy toadcurse instakill.
So it all balances out IMO, I still enjoy sparring Tuek and Narsrim more than most others regardless
So it all balances out IMO, I still enjoy sparring Tuek and Narsrim more than most others regardless
Amaru2005-04-07 15:21:00
QUOTE(Anonymous @ Apr 7 2005, 03:40 PM)
Our mana draining really isn't any better then a Nihilist or Celestian,
91883
Good to see you've done your research!Unknown2005-04-07 15:23:28
Powersink should be used much more often then it already is. Same cure as Aeon, making it easier to stick, if they have both, there's a 50% chance of curing the powersink rather then the aeon.
I'm thinking, with powersink/aeon/stupidity/darksilver at your disposal, along with scabies/rigormortis (also passively from the contagion) and ectoplasm, why exactly isn't a sacrifice possible?
Difficult? Yes. But Impossible? That's stretching it.
It's extremely simplistic in a group of three. Instant death. Crucify/Trample/Sacrifice. Sacrifice is definitely the most fun way to kill annoying novices though.
I'm thinking, with powersink/aeon/stupidity/darksilver at your disposal, along with scabies/rigormortis (also passively from the contagion) and ectoplasm, why exactly isn't a sacrifice possible?
Difficult? Yes. But Impossible? That's stretching it.
It's extremely simplistic in a group of three. Instant death. Crucify/Trample/Sacrifice. Sacrifice is definitely the most fun way to kill annoying novices though.
Amaru2005-04-07 15:28:00
I always use powersink paralysis when I amissio. It occasionally works on knights, often because of surge, but mainly because they have no passive effects. Yes, passive effects make it impossible for Guardians to absolve because we need about 8 amissios in swift succession.
Unknown2005-04-07 15:29:29
QUOTE(Amaru @ Apr 7 2005, 05:28 AM)
I always use powersink paralysis when I amissio. It occasionally works on knights, often because of surge, but mainly because they have no passive effects. Yes, passive effects make it impossible for Guardians to absolve because we need about 8 amissios in swift succession.
91905
I don't toadcurse anyone but Knights either, I also need a straight session of lashes. Against Demesne users, it's hopeless. It's not like that is any different from Moondancers.
Amaru2005-04-07 15:32:08
Anything is hopeless against demesne users for us, since all Guardian classes need perfect timing for any sort of kill. Toadcurse is easier to pull off than wrack or absolve though, that's just the truth. Not sure how or why, but it is in practice. You drain mana like a maniac.
Unknown2005-04-07 15:34:39
QUOTE(Amaru @ Apr 7 2005, 05:32 AM)
Anything is hopeless against demesne users for us, since all Guardian classes need perfect timing for any sort of kill. Toadcurse is easier to pull off than wrack or absolve though, that's just the truth. Not sure how or why, but it is in practice. You drain mana like a maniac.
91908
Perhaps it is more likely to happen, but it is also far less likely to ever result in a kill. Example, you and I have grouped together many of times, and I've seen you kill many people with absolve in such situations, I have seen many logs of you killing people with absolve in other situations. However, very few deaths ever happen to toadcurse. More often then not, the target escapes.
Shiri2005-04-07 15:38:29
Part of the problem is possibly too much focus mind from crone attacks. Assuming you use that, because a lot of people do.
Thorgal2005-04-07 16:06:41
QUOTE(Anonymous @ Apr 7 2005, 05:12 PM)
Actually, the drain from lash/amissio is the same. Also, the pooka is not a 250 mana drain each round, it is more like a 250 mana drain every 2-3 rounds, since it is on a slow timer, same for the banshee, which is like every other round. Insomnia can be replaced with Merbloom, if you have problems with mana, use freaking merbloom, or set up your system so that if you are below X mana, use merbloom instead of insomnia.
Angel/Demon paralysis is equivalent to forcing focus body, except you get the actual benefit of paralyzing them, and toss in powersink and you have the equivalent of the banshee.
Edit: Our mana drain really is not any better then the mana drain of the other Guardian classes.
Angel/Demon paralysis is equivalent to forcing focus body, except you get the actual benefit of paralyzing them, and toss in powersink and you have the equivalent of the banshee.
Edit: Our mana drain really is not any better then the mana drain of the other Guardian classes.
91897
Your fae are on the same timer as our demons and angels, except our ent attacks much much slower than your fae if we're not trans in our primary guildskill.
So take we waste our merbloom instead of using insomnia, that still leaves mooondancers with lash, banshee and pooka, while nihilists and celestines only have amissio and demon/angel paralysis, why is the mana draining equal? You're still draining more mana.
Shiri2005-04-07 16:12:31
Not entirely true, Thorgal. Pooka has a variable timer. It's almost always longer than other entity attack timers, though, and you need to be on-eq to use it, though you don't lose eq if you do. Can't say I've noticed banshee being slower, but I haven't timed it specifically.
Thorgal2005-04-07 16:26:13
QUOTE(Amaru @ Apr 7 2005, 05:32 PM)
Anything is hopeless against demesne users for us, since all Guardian classes need perfect timing for any sort of kill. Toadcurse is easier to pull off than wrack or absolve though, that's just the truth. Not sure how or why, but it is in practice. You drain mana like a maniac.
91908
It's true, I can stand sipping mana and eating sparkleberry against a celestine or nihilist using any manadraining strategy they can think of, and never even getting in yellow, while against a moondancer, I have to whore magician to stay out of red. And I don't focus mind for crone, in fact I only focus mind if my mana is at half +1000.
It's basically because they have two more effects that drain mana, one if you are rich enough to use merbloom instead of insomnia.
All guardians have one active mana drainer, and one passive mana drainer, but moondancers have one active, and 3 passive drainers.
Narsrim2005-04-08 17:27:08
QUOTE(Thorgal @ Apr 7 2005, 12:26 PM)
It's true, I can stand sipping mana and eating sparkleberry against a celestine or nihilist using any manadraining strategy they can think of, and never even getting in yellow, while against a moondancer, I have to whore magician to stay out of red. And I don't focus mind for crone, in fact I only focus mind if my mana is at half +1000.
It's basically because they have two more effects that drain mana, one if you are rich enough to use merbloom instead of insomnia.
All guardians have one active mana drainer, and one passive mana drainer, but moondancers have one active, and 3 passive drainers.
It's basically because they have two more effects that drain mana, one if you are rich enough to use merbloom instead of insomnia.
All guardians have one active mana drainer, and one passive mana drainer, but moondancers have one active, and 3 passive drainers.
91935
Mugwump Celestines/Nihilists can drain massive mana... and a Celestine can quicken/amissio three times uber fast or a Nihilist can quicken/three leeches, quicken/three leeches (since quicken is 3p and wrack only takes 5, you need 1p regen which you will achieve in the process) for massive mana drain.... this is as effective as lash/pooka/banshee
Terenas2005-04-08 21:38:22
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Apr 8 2005, 05:27 PM)
Mugwump Celestines/Nihilists can drain massive mana... and a Celestine can quicken/amissio three times uber fast or a Nihilist can quicken/three leeches, quicken/three leeches (since quicken is 3p and wrack only takes 5, you need 1p regen which you will achieve in the process) for massive mana drain.... this is as effective as lash/pooka/banshee
92698
Though I agree that quickening even things up a little. You can't drain mana fast enough before the quickening ends and have enough power to absolve right away.
It's more doable with wrack, assuming you get lucky with demon shackles, 3 amissio/leech at 2.5 seconds per is pretty damn deadly, yeah.
So a Celestine puts up quickening, that's 8 powers, he then amissio for 3 rounds at 2.5 to 3 seconds per. That's 10 seconds. So in that time you would have regenerated only 1 power, not enough to absolve yet.
Edit- I meant regenerates enough power to absolve, not that quickening doesn't last long enough. Thanks Soll.
Soll2005-04-08 21:41:32
You can absolve just before quickening ends at trans Discipline. Quicken lasts 10 odd seconds, and at trans you regen 1p every 8 seconds. At 30,000 skill points I'd guess you regen 1p per 10 seconds so even then you'd be able to absolve right as quicken ends.
Ceres2005-08-30 08:16:49
QUOTE(Anonymous @ Apr 7 2005, 03:23 PM)
It's extremely simplistic in a group of three. Instant death. Crucify/Trample/Sacrifice.
91903
Ceres2005-08-30 08:17:07
Bugger, damn and trash.
I didn't mean to do that.
I didn't mean to do that.
Amaru2005-08-30 11:45:59
Good thread to necro though. *re-reads*
