Everyone should leave as they went in, yes. No more "abuse" of the arena for deffing up for free, and also no losing all your expensive defenses when you spar and lose. Sounds like a great idea to me!

Right. So every time I want to fight with full defs it costs me 90 power? You're only suggesting this because no class takes as much power to fully def as Celestines.

Blegh, if Achaea has something and we don't, that's gotta be something wrong. :/

And given how powerful the Celestine class is, I think this would be a nice counter balance.

I think that was the intention, but it doesn't work in practice, 'cause you can just...link for more. It's not as though power's finite.

Yeah, I find it highly rediculous that a Guardian can set up Warrior, Fool, Enigma, and Wrath/Scourge ahead of time. And then when they use them that's 2 masked angel afflictions + 2 masked tarot afflictions for the next 3 rounds at least. That's just freaking rediculous that any class can give up to 4 hidden afflictions all at once with a well-timed attack. And the Grim Horror or Handmaiden only makes that worse.

Yeah. Fool, Enigma, Warrior (*chuckle*), and Wrath don't really strike me as something you're meant to always have up.

Bah... someone deleted the post! Damn you, Shiri...

Why did my post get deleted!

That's cause it's impossible to always have up, during fights, the only thing I keep up is fool and the odd scourge once in a while, keeping everything up would mean wasting 500-600 power a day just on defences.

And really, guardians ain't that powerful, the only reason celestines are powerful is inquisition and the only reason moondancers are powerful is cause of their insane manadraining. Nihilists will become more dangerous when sacrifice is fixed.

Moondancers.

Hmm...10 drawdown
12 Faeries + we'll say 3 maidens to get all of hers
3 yellow
3 aethersight
5 spiritbond nature, maybe.

Even that only makes 36. That doesn't add up to Amaru's 90 or so. Or am I missing something?

Heh..celestines take a lot more, even I know this, never having been a celestine.

edit: Umm, aethersight and yellow are hardly moondancer defences. And naturbond isn't necessary, since you can get all spirits up pretty fast seperately, which I always used to do, rather than wasting power on nature.

They don't have to be Moondancer defences if they're part of the cost to def up. I was trying to stretch it, anyway, to prove the point, is why I used Nature.

celestines:

+5 angel
+10 wrath
+6 two benedictions
+10 honour
+3 fool
+3 warrior
+8 enigma

..makes 45 power for just guild defences.

I also class my 10 power Handmaiden as a guild defence. Then there are non-guild defences.

As for Guardians being overpowered, boo hoo, wrath fool and enigma wear out after generally three rounds of a fight. Survive these and you have nothing to complain about.

Yeah, after the first few rounds, our offense pretty much dies down entirely, unlike a moondancer's.

'cause it's not like we have much of one to start with.

Heh, Shiri...

Your offense is on par with nihilists and celestines because:

-You can drain the most mana in a short time by far.
-You do the most damage of all guardians by far.

Your defence is far better than that of nihilists or celestines because:

-You have the best magic resistance by far.
-You have the best regeneration of both mana and health by far, due to totems, drawdown, sprite and mother.

Moondancers are NOT inferior to the other guardians in any bloody way at all, EVEN with a crappy skill like dark moon.

I don't understand why I have to school people about their own class all the time...

Next to some crappy abilities in various skillsets, the divine did a pretty damn good job in balancing the archetypes. Let's just stop whining like "Theirs is much better than miiiine, it's not fair, I want upgrades! I suck! I have the worst class of the entire wooorld!"

(this wasn't really directed to you though, Shiri, I think you can guess who it was to though)

The end.

You seem to have left out that each guardian class also has two other ways to kill including Soulless Tarot which takes no power and thus can be stacked up with other powerful feats like Inquistion/Soulless or Hanged-man (with Enigma/Fool)/Trueheal/Soulles and such. . Furthermore, toad curse is also extremely ineffective. When I toad someone, they get away if there are no icewalls. Furthermore if there are icewalls, they melt at random so there is still a huge chance. On top of that, I toad someone and I lose equilibrium. They have 5 seconds head start to run away. I cannot see the move (they move as if shrouded) and move as fast as me. I've had toads dodge stomps 4-5 times in a row which takes balance each time. Furthermore, toad curse is CURED by an /emote/ that can be done off balance/eq and has no drawback making the skill 110% UTTERLY USELESS in group combat. I fail to see how that is up to par. The only chance a Moondance has to kill someone is toadcurse (considering that anyone can just starting whoring puella or shield once they get low on health and since we can break shield a mere 1-2 seconds faster than someone can reshield, we cannot really stop shield whoring in any shape or form).

Furthermore, Moondancers have nothing special outside of lash/toadcurse. Whereas you can whore sting and still have viable options that can stack with loading someone up with afflictions, we cannot afflict (even with Hexes, it is nearly impossible since you can heal as fast as a Mugwump can hex). It would be different if we had some other offense to back up lash/toadcurse but we do not. Our sole offense is lash/toadcurse which is not even that effective against races that do not have a sipping penalty. (Terenas, for example, can keep up with me constantly lashing, etc... easy).