Ah, so that is why you manage to kill about every single one of the best fighters in the Basin with toadcurse, yet none of them manage to kill you, even in teams... because you are completely underpowered, have no way to kill others and are pretty much dwarfed in all of your abilities.

You do realize you didn't even have Lash to begin with? If you want better offense, then lessen your insane regenerating and resisting abilities, lessen your insane mana drain and ask for an upgrade in offense through a new instakill.

Moon was not finished in the beginning. There was always the intent to add more abilities that the class was lacking. In fact, there are posts to prove this.

I could kill them as a Celestine too only far easier.

EDIT:

Murphy has killed almost every doing the same attack (knockdown) over and over... that sounds like it is extremely difficult to pull off as well.

Murphy spent hundreds of credits and milions of gold on getting flails of good quality and elemental runes to double the damage, I agree that some bonecrusher attacks are indeed too strong in some cases, but you didn't do anything at all to improve your offense, you have no offensive artifacts, in fact, you went dwarf, you entirely nerfed 50% of your offense to be even more tanky, then you whine about people not dropping dead on sight.

And you still beat Murphy.

Murphy just sucks, no question there.

In fact, I agree that moondancers could use another instakill, but they need to pay a price for it, and give in some of their immense regeneration and resistance.

I also think nihilists need more ways, because if you use summer or tipheret, you are completely and utterly immune to the damage and the wrack/absolve skills of a nihilist.

Sacrifice is the most crappy instakill I've ever seen, cause even if the only requirement for it would be, 4 shriveled limbs, it would already be -extremely- hard, since venoms only have a 35% success rate here, but adding the crucifiction requirement makes it just entirely impossible, there's no way our target will still be crucified AND have all their limbs shriveled after the 8 seconds it takes to regain equilibrium from cruficying.

Which leaves us with a single way to kill our target: Soulless, it's all we have. Knowing that size affects tumble speed to the point where you instantly leave the room upon tumbling, nihilists do have it harder than moondancers..

One thing, you can enlarge twice (once to remove diminish, twice to enlarge) before tossing soulless, vastly increasing tumble time (and as a bonus, writhe time as well, for applicable to sacrifice/hangedman/web/shackles).

Another thing, invoking summer/tipheret isn't guaranteed, since you need equilibrium in order to do it. Not to mention, it is visible, so you shouldn't ever have a wasted wrack. If you entangle them while they are off balance/equilibrium you are gold, espcially if it was done passively with the demon. Also, you cannot invoke summer/tipheret while paralyzed (however, you can writhe).

Sacrifice would be fairly easy to pull off as the Nihilist champion (due to blackout) and it could probably done otherwise, through original use of aeon/crucify and scabies/ectoplasm.

Ya ya, EVERYONE thinks they (themselves) need upgrades. Shiri, allow swearing on forums and ban the words UPGRADE, IMBALANCED, DOWNGRADE, UNFAIR, NERF and whatever else, the forums seem to have degenerated to one big Envoy debate.

OI I resent that comment. i've killed you a few times in FFAs, and one on one too.

Not to mention you're 230% of my might and narsrim is 140% of my might, I'm not doing too badly thank you very much, especially now since i've rewritten my system, also given that Tuek is an artiwhore.

I only have problem beating narsrim and tuek regularly, because they are rediculously tanky for guardians/wiccans, they still sip for around what I combo for, in spite of my artifacts.

I find it very lame of you to result to personal attacks when I have hardly posted in this thread at all.

Rewritten your system made of bits of other people's systems stuck together.

I took ideas of everyones system I could get and wrote all the best parts into one system, it doesn't do too badly either!

Not really, there is just no possible way in existance that any race with a sipping penalty can keep up with a moondancer's manadraining for longer than 20 seconds.

Any Necromancer can, it's called Leech.
Any Rituals user can with Amissio if they drop low.

Our mana draining really isn't any better then a Nihilist or Celestian, since they could just invest Paralyze/Powersink with other afflictions to get a boosted mana drain.

I just have to say this here...
Kwa?
Alright, so Celestines get to make use of their highpower feats, and we get... crucify.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
*falls over under the weight of sarcasm*

so we need to shut down our offence for leech? that aides us no other way?

I was fihting narsrim, even with leech sip sparkle at 4k max mana, i couldn't keep up with pooka force focus body, insomnia and lash....I still couldn't keep up, it got me in the end

I meant you leech once, with a decent base of mana to catch up and then continue on. Just like any other class has to occasionally web or shield to catch up on damage/afflictions.

be honest, leech doesn't work all that well on races with a sipping penalty, note i had 18 int at the time

Actually, leech and amissio only give 50% of the mana you drained from your target, it won't keep up with mana drain at all, you're better off webbing or trying to hinder them in some way.

Moondancer manadraining:

-Banshee, draining amounts based on max health and max mana.

-Lash, draining a slightly larger amount of mana than amissio or leech, and turning 25% of the drained mana into health for the caster.

-Pooka, force to focus body for 250 mana each round.

-Pixie, strips insomnia, 100 mana to put it back up.


Nihilist and Celestine manadraining:

-Amissio and the identical leech.

-Angel/demon on paralysis.

Powersink is not an option, cause you can just sip and cure it instantly, when the demon hits, there are 5 different demon and angel messages, it's really not hard finding out what each does.

As far as I am aware Amissio and leech gives about ..300. You can eat reishi far before powersink hits if you actually watch what the demon hits with.

Yeah we can whore sting , if you were smart you could diag every 3 stings and continue lashing to make it all entirely useless.

Actually, the drain from lash/amissio is the same. Also, the pooka is not a 250 mana drain each round, it is more like a 250 mana drain every 2-3 rounds, since it is on a slow timer, same for the banshee, which is like every other round. Insomnia can be replaced with Merbloom, if you have problems with mana, use freaking merbloom, or set up your system so that if you are below X mana, use merbloom instead of insomnia.

Angel/Demon paralysis is equivalent to forcing focus body, except you get the actual benefit of paralyzing them, and toss in powersink and you have the equivalent of the banshee.

Edit: Our mana drain really is not any better then the mana drain of the other Guardian classes.