Daganev, this thread has nothing to do with whether or not the Glomdoring had an ecosystem or anything of the sort. OOCly, I would agree that it does... and ICly, a few Magnagorans were attempting to persuade my character to that effect, though the only one who had any real effect left a bit before these events started and didn't spend enough anywhere near enough time at it to convince him (who knows if it would have succeeded or not).

This thread is about assigning blame in an attempt to make Serenwilders change the way they act, and that is what I am disputing.

May it be that right now, or better said... three days ago, the Glomdoring could've been a thriving (or one that finally adapted to a change) ecosystem. BUT, this was thanks to Kethuru being sealed and the harm being done... And the things harmed trying to deal with the injury. If Kethuru hadn't been sealed, Glomdoring wouldn't had even been a wasteland. There simply wouldn't had been a Glomdoring or anything whatsoever.

List of Events

1. Viravain beings healing forest
2. Viravain goes to Estaara and finds out how to heal the forest slowly
3. Serenwilde _supports_ Viravain, encourages Her, and urges Her to continue
4. Magnagora tells them not to
5. Celest wants the forest healed
6. Viravain is uncertain, Serenwilde encourages Her more
7. Raezon finds out what Viravain is doing, and tells her that with the power of the Seal of Nature, She can attempt to heal the entire forest at one go
8. Viravain is shy, unsure of Her power, but agrees to try since Serenwilde and some Celests want the forest healed.
9. Viravain tries to heal the forest with her power increased by the seal
10. She becomes possessed


You can't say that neither Serenwilde or Viravain didn't want the forest healed. Think on this. If someone said the only way to get Gloriana back was to use the Seal, Serenwilde would think about it and eventually grap the seal and run off to Glom.

But it WASN'T the only way. >_< We wanted the forest healed, so did Viravain. But we didn't want to use the seal and cause this crud and mess everything up anyway! Argh!

If it had _been_ the only way, I think it would have happened _anyway_.

By the way, if Serenwilde had actually gotten near to untainting the whole forest, Somebody would have tried to stop them. You can't think, oh we'll just keep doing this for the next few years while our enemies (Night Coven for one) who don't want it to happen do nothing. I can't think why someone like Virivain wouldn't take the risk.

Viravain alone on herself started to heal the forest, because she wanted her fond Gloriana. Serenwilde had already tried to do so by reforesting the area with a druid demesne. What a joke. You can all laugh now.

Serenwilde, forget Celest, wanted to restore Gloriana and thought Viravain could be of help (actually do something). So we encourage Viravain. Viravain would've been able to restore Gloriana unless a power equal as her's gets involve to try to stop her. Raezon was the one that placed a bunch of crazy ideas on Viravain, Serenwilde just urged her to NOT give up on something she had already started.

Edit: We didn't encourage her to listen to Raezon nor do anything too drastic and impredictable. Basically Serenwilde was like "Estarra's idea of restoring Gloriana is alright, stick with that plan". Nothing more.

Viravain just cleansed ONE room. Out of love for Her creation, Raven. She didn't make the Gloriana. It was everything She could do to make Raven, most like. It probably was several Creators working together to create the entire forest.

No, She wouldn't have. Ten bucks says She could not both untaint the trunk, and then rebuild the Ravenwood. Hell, She used the Seal in conjunction with Her powers, and all She could do is rebuild the Ravenwood.

And I bet the Seren said "Untaint the Gloriana!", not specifying "only one to two room(s) at a time". The story seems to change, and suddenly now apparantly the Seren said to ONLY do it a few rooms at a time.

Raezon didn't say "do this" or "do that". Only. "Well, if you need a power source..." and then "Well, here's how you remove the Seal." Not. "This is the ONLY way! This is what you must do! Here, take the Seal, and go do it while I run for cover!"

You see but the catch is that Raezon coincidentally only mentioned the Seal of Nature. Why not say? "Suck my power, I'll help you restore Gloriana even at the expense of my life". Also, why would Viravain even bother with restoring one room, if she didn't happen to continue forward. Even maybe, if she had been a more powerful Goddess, she could've had restored 5-6 rooms on a single month.

Also, if Raven is Viravain's creation... but with Glomdoring Raven is lost, why wouldn't she want to see her creation well again? And what if the only way to heal raven is through healing the forest? One thing leads to the other, unfortunately Viravain decided to ignore Estarra's advice or whatever she did and listen to Raezon instead. In all this, Serenwilde was all for slowly restoring the forest.

Raezon is a devious guy...

And, someone had mentioned something, but I stopped reading this thread ten pages or so ago... Something about Glomdoring was going to turn into Glorianna...

I've been of the idea/opinion/presumption, that Glomdoring was always meant to be, and no matter what was RP'ed, we'd get the commune anyway. Looked that way to me from the beginning.

Ugh. Raezon didn't say "do it this way", he just said, "It can be done this way". I think we all know Raezon expected a bit of Kethuru to leak through.

She did it as a rememberance. It's been stated Ic by even Herself several times. The Serens pushed Her to revive the rest of it. Obviously, OOCly, this has been planned all along.

You're argueing in circles in that second paragraph - Just because A = B doesn't me Y = Z. Sorry. She could focus Crow's energy - get the Seren to raise Crow, force Him into a single body - and then cleanse Him. Bam. The Glomdoring was just a means to an end.

And a part of a story line, for that matter.

I always thought that Raven/Crow was deeply united to the forest it resides, if so... raising Crow and purify Him shouldn't be doable. And hey, someone slightly saying "It can be done this way" , specially when you say something like that to an innocent child (Viravain)... the child may be impressed and just do it.

Also, what I was trying to say is that Gloriana could've had been restored eventually if Viravain wanted to. Considering she stuck to healing room per room, without the help of a Seal. Getting the Seal from Avechna was tempting the fates, which unfortunately it was a sealed fate. All this because Raezon had the brilliant suggestion of manipulating Viravain. I am adamant in the opinion that Raezon would love to get his hands on a Soulless, but isn't really capable of adequatly measuring the costs.

Impressionable or not, it's not his fault that Viravain has the Iq of a four year old.

And, even WITH the Seal, which amplified Her powers greatly, She couldn't restore and untaint the Ravenwood. So, no, She would have failed eventually.

I think Auseklis post from a while back shows this. We hardly pushed Her. Most of the time we were just asking questions. We'd say, can such and such be done. Next thing we know Viravain pops up and says 'come here now I'm going to do this'. It was a little confusing. At first She told us a lot about Bollikin and Tae and She talked about Covens maybe being to help. After a while the whole tenor changed. It went from 'expect a long arduous task that will probably never go anywhere' to 'if you show and think real hard I'll convert a room'. We were left perplexed thinking 'what about Tae, Bollikin, and Gib?'.
It's easy to see now that no matter what this was going to happen.

I'm 99.9% convinced that we are going to have a Glom Commune with Viravain as a patron. I just hope the involved parties do as they say and keep it free of Magnagora influence. I won't be involved but I hope all of you turn it into something dark, mean, and nasty.

I thought Estarra said different.

I thought Est said She might be able to. Might. Obviously She couldn't.

Estarra said She could once the entire rest of the Forest was converted, room by room. Once that was done there wouldn't have have been any beasties to overwhelm Her because they would have been converted.

Indeed. Read the begining of Events News 22. It says there that it was possible to restore Gloriana. Also, I am not cleansing Viravain of blame. She clearly is the weakest link of the Elder, and Raezon a snake... So Viravain is much to blame for actually paying attention to Raezon, and Raezon for wanting to get His hands on a Soulless at even the expense of the Basin (imo, of course).

Edit: Could someone bother posting the first paragraph of Events 22? There it clearly says that Gloriana's restoration was possible if done the right way.

Not the beasties, most likely. The Ravenwood draws it'spower from the forest - No Glomdoring, no real strength for the Ravenwood.

Yeah, fixed that.