Kethuru's release can't be his own fault.

You assume too much.

My focus, once again to state ti clearly, was to try to show people that all those arguments that Glomdoring is anti-nature and you can't have nature and taint at the same time, and all that stuff is bad thinking. I'm making a second claim that such thinking led to the release of Kethuru.

Let me play the fastfowared version of Serenwilde History in Modern times.

Serenwilde comes to being, factions ensue many viewpoints are spoken.
Serenwilde tries to 'protect the plants'.. Auskelis says plants take care of themselves.
Something else happens that I don't know about, Auskelis says 'taint is not what it use to be, its residue and uninteresting and non threatening'
Serenwilde embraces Lisaera.
Serenwilde gets in tiff with Magnagora
Serenwilde cuts magnagora from all forms of interaction, hangs out with thier new friends Celest.
Members of Serenwilde follow Celest gods just as easily as Serenwilde ones while rejecting anything related to Magnagora.
Viravain arrives, attempts to remove glomdoring and recreate gloriana.
Serenwilde Champions the removal of Taint declaring it bad in all forms.
Viravain turns 'memorial' into full fledged project.
Magnagorans noticing the destruction of glomdoring start calling Serenwilde Greedy and object to destruction of a forest.
People assume magnaograns just want Taint and have no legitamate points or issues, destruction of glomdoring continues.
Viravain attempts to do whole forest, looks for best possible sollution.
Raezon suggest the seals
Kethuru inhabbits Viravain
The Basin knows despairs.


Then, I post on the forums saying that Serenwilde should learn from this and put thier country bumpkin hats back on and take off the city hats. Responce? Its just a magnagora, they must be trying to manipulate IC events.
Now I get fustrated that the same logic that caused IC events to occuur exist on the forums and argue the point the death.

Kethuru can't be blamed for his own actions.... Wow.

And yet you further prove my point. Pooh had a great and good heart and knew the general sense of the problem was, but never knew the real solution and approached it with an undyingly stupid method, getting lucky along the way.

His release...is his own action.

'cause yeah, Kethuru broke that seal of nature.

Right in front of my eyes. I saw him. How could I forget?

Now your confusing issues... but I'm going to wait for you to read my long post.
Kethuru took over the body of Viravain and caused destruction. His actual release is not the problem, its his actions after his release.

Do you want to use proximate cause or not?

Tao of Pooh says otherwise, pooh himself says otherwise. (the quote is in my sig)

If it consitantly works, its not a undyingly stupid method. Its just different from what you would have done. And perhaps, less efficient.

Right. Kethuru's actions after his release are his fault.
His release IN ITSELF is Viravain's and Raezon's fault.

Now, whether or not the latter would be considered a negative thing with or without the existence of the former (the potential would be bad enough), it's still obvious that...it ain't the Seren's fault.

Go back to my post about the fastfowarded history.

Again you have missed something. It wasn't Pooh's methods that ultimately solved the problem. Perhaps you should get your head stuck in more honeypots?

Too bad your little history lesson left out the parts where Serenwilde under Nikua was a Magnagoran sycophant and Magnagora tried to raise Crow, Taint Fae, and stomp a new mud hole in Serenwilde.

I think there you either haven't explained what you think the difference between "city hat" and "country bumpkin hat" are, or you're totally wrong about them. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's the former.

(I'm ignoring the random biased inaccuracies in there, but I will point out that "Serenwilde gets in tiff with Magnagora" is rather important as far as showing that the Taint and Nature don't go particularly well together.)

Why should I listen to you, Visaeris, when you're not even listening to yourself? Reread what you wrote, slowly. If necessary, I can rewrite it in shorter words.

Really, this is an OOC forum, if you're just going to go back on that "repeat a lie until someone believes it" thing, just do it. Stop pretending it's something more than that. In any case, I have no use for this. I suppose I could present a proof why Magnagora is responsible for the disappearance of Hallifax and Gaudiguch if you like, but really, who needs it? Either your thinking cap is on your head or it's on something else. Enjoy the remainder of the thread.

First things first: Daganev is right.

Now, I haven't really participated much in this event, due to various restraints, but from what I've seen the blame for Virivain should mostly be on the various Serenwilder supporters. She has been an easily influenced goddess, for instance when she acted so quickly upon Reazon's idea, without consulting anyone else it seems. So she goes and changes one room of Glomdoring, and some Serenwilders say, hey she can change it back, lets convince her to do the whole thing! so she does. However. She does not actually have the power to do the whole thing. That's why she didn't plan on doing the whole forest when she started. She's only a minor god, she knows that it would be almost if not impossible for her to clean up the entire forest. Then she hears a way whe could do it, and since she doesn't want to disappoint her advocates, and because she is ignorant of the possible effects, she tries it, breaks the seal, and lets in Kethuru. You can't really blame Virivain because she is a new goddess, unknowledgeable of current circumstances and an easily influenced personality, but you can blame her supporters, namely the Serenwilders, because they caused her to do it. So the order of blame is Serenwilde supporters, Raezon, then Virivain.

And pooh isn't stupid, he's just slow thinking, easily distracted, and doesn't vocalize his ideas very effectively. The environment also detracts from him a lot, because of more flambouyant characters like rabbit and tigger, rabbit especially.

She could well have done the whole forest. By detainting every individual bit over a long period of time, it could have been achieved that the Ravenwood was detainted once the rest of the forest was, because it didn't have as much "sympathetic support" or whatever. But the seal made it faster.

So the argument that we forced her to use the seal is, well, wrong.

And so's Daganev.

Horse hockey. By that logic the Disciples of Crow recieve the ultimate blame. If they hadn't put such an emphasis on raising and empowering Crow, Serenwilde wouldn't have had to put any emphasis on detainting Glomdoring.

Actually that works quite well. This is the Crows fault and there for Magnagora's fault for harboring and supporting them.

Crows? What does crow have to do with it? Virivain wanted to untaint Glomdoring to get Raven back, right? So, if Crow had been raised, then Virivain could have gone directly to him and fixed her creation, right? So by that same logic the Serens caused it all because they refused to let Crow be alive. And the point is that since people are blaming Virivain, the blame really goes to the Serens that influenced her to do what she did.

I saw the tiff as being an explanation for how COSMIC and NATURE don't mix well together, since you know, the whole 'Cosmic is anathema to nature' quote.

I also left out the part where Celest killed fae because it is irrelevant to the situation.

I did not say its a complete history, I said its a fast forwarded history.

Country bumpkin hat is the hat and view point worn by those people who live in agricultural societies, and more importatly have less crowded areas, less buildings and genrally do not have a desire to expand beyond what they need to survive.

Decadant city hat is the hat and view point worn by those people who live in cities and view self indulgence, expanse of power, and personal satisfaction as the ideal existance. If everyone can be happy, then everything is for the best, and the more power I have to make myself happy, the better the world will be. Also, whats good for my friends is good for you, and thus an expansionist policy to the world.

Viravain said 'we' quite a bit in her explanation of what was going on.
'Now we'
'We can'
The only time she said 'I' was when refrencing her inablity to do the entire forest on her own, and when Razeon told 'me' how to do it.

Viravain expressed no desire to detaint Glomdoring until the idea was presented to Her.
If Crow wasn't a threat to White-Hart with the Disciples actively supporting him then Serenwilde wouldn't have been pressured to de-taint the Glomdoring. There for by the convoluted logic you presented the Crows are to blame as is Magnagora for supporting them.