Unknown2005-04-06 19:35:01
Well a mod kindly decided to lock a perfectly valid topic in "Idiots" so I thought I'd bring it here..
Am I alone in thinking that it's total bunk for a fresh-out-of-the-portal character toclaim that he/she grew up in (wherever) and therefor knows all about it tralalalala? To me that seems like a completely transparent way to justify OOC knowledge used in an IC manner. Arguments like "Well my character grew up in Glomdoring so it's A-OK for him/her to exit the portal and start having lengthy discussions on the Taint and such" strike mas completely foolish, because that's a huge violation of the whole concept of seperating IC and OOC.
Share your thoughts
Am I alone in thinking that it's total bunk for a fresh-out-of-the-portal character toclaim that he/she grew up in (wherever) and therefor knows all about it tralalalala? To me that seems like a completely transparent way to justify OOC knowledge used in an IC manner. Arguments like "Well my character grew up in Glomdoring so it's A-OK for him/her to exit the portal and start having lengthy discussions on the Taint and such" strike mas completely foolish, because that's a huge violation of the whole concept of seperating IC and OOC.
Share your thoughts
Shiri2005-04-06 19:37:08
You can remember things from before the Portal. That's what the whole family concept's about, just take a look at the scroll there.
Unknown2005-04-06 19:38:02
QUOTE(Shiri @ Apr 6 2005, 11:37 AM)
You can remember things from before the Portal. That's what the whole family concept's about, just take a look at the scroll there.
91182
That's indeed true.
Let's look at that scroll
QUOTE
Passing through the Portal of Fate forges the soul for greatness, but it
also creates some very substantive obstacles, one of which is the fact
that your memory has many holes. Some people may face the challenge of
finding the lost familial threads of his or her life. This is not an easy
task as even your parents may not easily recognize you, perhaps because of
actual physical alterations or perhaps because reality itself has slightly
shifted as the Fates spun your destiny. Whatever the case, if you think
you've found your parents, you must go through a period of time where you
consider whether these people are indeed your parents, and where they
consider if you indeed are their lost child.
In order to have a hope of finding your parents, they must be married and
willing to consider whether you are their child. If they are not bound
together in marriage, the emotional, spiritual and psychological
boundaries set by the Fates themselves will make the task impossible. The
parents you find may be your parents by blood or the ones who raised you.
They could be couples of different races or even a same sex couple. That
is for you to discover. Once the consideration period has passed, which
takes about one Lusternian year, this couple will forever be your parents
so use this time to consider wisely.
also creates some very substantive obstacles, one of which is the fact
that your memory has many holes. Some people may face the challenge of
finding the lost familial threads of his or her life. This is not an easy
task as even your parents may not easily recognize you, perhaps because of
actual physical alterations or perhaps because reality itself has slightly
shifted as the Fates spun your destiny. Whatever the case, if you think
you've found your parents, you must go through a period of time where you
consider whether these people are indeed your parents, and where they
consider if you indeed are their lost child.
In order to have a hope of finding your parents, they must be married and
willing to consider whether you are their child. If they are not bound
together in marriage, the emotional, spiritual and psychological
boundaries set by the Fates themselves will make the task impossible. The
parents you find may be your parents by blood or the ones who raised you.
They could be couples of different races or even a same sex couple. That
is for you to discover. Once the consideration period has passed, which
takes about one Lusternian year, this couple will forever be your parents
so use this time to consider wisely.
Family bonds are completely different than complete IC knowledge of an area, the way things work, or what have you.
Shiri2005-04-06 19:44:47
But if you have one, why not have the other? Different they may be, but they're the same SORT of thing. If I can remember my mother and father, I can probably remember the forest I lived in 17 years, don't you think?
Daganev2005-04-06 19:48:31
The way I see it.. in this case I agree with you Vis, but not in general.
When you come out of the portal of fate you can choose your age. I would assume a 16 year old does not know much, but someone is is 30 could quite easily know the entire histroy
I was shocked when I saw a 16 year old spouting philosphy, but since I left the portal when I was 16 and now am 30, I would expect any other 30 year old to be able to gather as much information on topic as I have.
When you come out of the portal of fate you can choose your age. I would assume a 16 year old does not know much, but someone is is 30 could quite easily know the entire histroy
I was shocked when I saw a 16 year old spouting philosphy, but since I left the portal when I was 16 and now am 30, I would expect any other 30 year old to be able to gather as much information on topic as I have.
Unknown2005-04-06 19:49:27
QUOTE(Shiri @ Apr 6 2005, 11:44 AM)
But if you have one, why not have the other? Different they may be, but they're the same SORT of thing.
91189
No, they're not. Maybe on an ingame level, they are. But on an OOC, mechanical level, one is a way to form ingame bonds, another is to circumvent the lack of knowledge new characters should have.
QUOTE(daganev @ Apr 6 2005, 11:48 AM)
The way I see it.. in this case I agree with you Vis, but not in general.
When you come out of the portal of fate you can choose your age. I would assume a 16 year old does not know much, but someone is is 30 could quite easily know the entire histroy
I was shocked when I saw a 16 year old spouting philosphy, but since I left the portal when I was 16 and now am 30, I would expect any other 30 year old to be able to gather as much information on topic as I have.
When you come out of the portal of fate you can choose your age. I would assume a 16 year old does not know much, but someone is is 30 could quite easily know the entire histroy
I was shocked when I saw a 16 year old spouting philosphy, but since I left the portal when I was 16 and now am 30, I would expect any other 30 year old to be able to gather as much information on topic as I have.
91192
Yeah I'd agree, an older character would be a bit more valid. But that 30 year old should have to remember, and wouldn't know anything first hand.
Daganev2005-04-06 19:51:10
I think its clear that levels of memories are different for everyone, some people may remember everything, others may remember nothing.
Akraasiel2005-04-06 19:53:16
If said character lived in said place all of said life, and said place was of more importance than family, it would make quite a bit of sense. Additionally the portal of fate effects everyone differently, having different effects on memory. It more serves as a buffer for those who havent bothered to write up a background/history, and research their roleplay and character, until they become more familiar.
Nobody remembers it all, but what one remembers varies greatly from case to case.
Nobody remembers it all, but what one remembers varies greatly from case to case.
Shiri2005-04-06 19:53:21
QUOTE(Visaeris Maeloch @ Apr 6 2005, 08:49 PM)
No, they're not. Maybe on an ingame level, they are. But on an OOC, mechanical level, one is a way to form ingame bonds, another is to circumvent the lack of knowledge new characters should have.
91193
And my opinion is that if it's valid IC, there's no real reason not to do it from an OOC perspective. This "should have" isn't very valid when, as you admit, on an ingame level the two things are similar, one is possible, so presumably the other one should be.
Unknown2005-04-06 19:56:24
QUOTE(Akraasiel @ Apr 6 2005, 11:53 AM)
If said character lived in said place all of said life, and said place was of more importance than family, it would make quite a bit of sense. Additionally the portal of fate effects everyone differently, having different effects on memory. It more serves as a buffer for those who havent bothered to write up a background/history, and research their roleplay and character, until they become more familiar.
91198
Then let's get a bit more specific. I'm against people using it as a springboard to throw their character into important events that they really have no claim to, beyond "Well uh.. (character) grew up there, yeah!"
Edit:
QUOTE(Shiri @ Apr 6 2005, 11:53 AM)
And my opinion is that if it's valid IC, there's no real reason not to do it from an OOC perspective. This "should have" isn't very valid when, as you admit, on an ingame level the two things are similar, one is possible, so presumably the other one should be.
91199
... Anything that's "valid" IC must be equally valid OOC? So if a GM were to ICly hate people of (x) race, would it be acceptable for him to go through the guild member listings and outguild every one of them?
Shiri2005-04-06 19:59:24
Ah...well, I see your point there. I think there's quite a difference though. This doesn't particularly screw over any players, that definately would. You're objecting to this "because it annoys me," rather than because it's harming anything in particular.
Unknown2005-04-06 20:05:17
QUOTE(Shiri @ Apr 6 2005, 11:59 AM)
Ah...well, I see your point there. I think there's quite a difference though. This doesn't particularly screw over any players, that definately would. You're objecting to this "because it annoys me," rather than because it's harming anything in particular.
91205
No, I'm objecting to it because I think it's wrong, and more or less a form of metagaming.
Shiri2005-04-06 20:07:00
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one then. It's fairly atomic, I'd say.
Daganev2005-04-06 20:08:01
I don't think its metagaming at all.
Just beccause its new to you does not mean it wasn't there before.
Just beccause its new to you does not mean it wasn't there before.
Richter2005-04-06 20:48:40
I don't think it's metagaming.
Richter remembers next to nothing about his life. Others remember more. Remember, we were people before the portal, and had lives. Just not everyone remembers.
Richter remembers next to nothing about his life. Others remember more. Remember, we were people before the portal, and had lives. Just not everyone remembers.
Elryn2005-04-06 23:14:23
Of course it was impossible to not notice that Morrigana was an alt, but alts are quite acceptable in Lusternia.
I don't mind that she wants to use some IC background tied to Glomdoring, I think its admirable to use a background at all.
What I do find annoying is that she doesn't act anything like someone of her age or background should. I can't understand why someone fresh from the portal of fate would be allowed much of an IG role in 'shaping' the glomdoring/gloriana organization. I think she tried to debate with Elryn once or twice, but all I remember is a lot of ego-inflating and pompousness, not much actual philosophy.
I have to agree with Visaeris here. I don't like characters that are created/return just so they can get power/recognition when they see an easy opportunity finally about to happen.
I don't mind that she wants to use some IC background tied to Glomdoring, I think its admirable to use a background at all.
What I do find annoying is that she doesn't act anything like someone of her age or background should. I can't understand why someone fresh from the portal of fate would be allowed much of an IG role in 'shaping' the glomdoring/gloriana organization. I think she tried to debate with Elryn once or twice, but all I remember is a lot of ego-inflating and pompousness, not much actual philosophy.
I have to agree with Visaeris here. I don't like characters that are created/return just so they can get power/recognition when they see an easy opportunity finally about to happen.
Desdemona2005-04-06 23:18:09
I think it is perfectly okay. Remember you weren't born immediatly after visiting the portal of fates. You visit, you could've had a temporal memory loss and then recover it. Maybe when you do recover your memory is when you have the knowledge of all the places, etc. Some recover their memories faster than others, and happen to have more concrete memories too.
Akraasiel2005-04-06 23:26:22
QUOTE(Elryn @ Apr 6 2005, 07:14 PM)
Of course it was impossible to not notice that Morrigana was an alt, but alts are quite acceptable in Lusternia.
I don't mind that she wants to use some IC background tied to Glomdoring, I think its admirable to use a background at all.
What I do find annoying is that she doesn't act anything like someone of her age or background should. I can't understand why someone fresh from the portal of fate would be allowed much of an IG role in 'shaping' the glomdoring/gloriana organization. I think she tried to debate with Elryn once or twice, but all I remember is a lot of ego-inflating and pompousness, not much actual philosophy.
I have to agree with Visaeris here. I don't like characters that are created/return just so they can get power/recognition when they see an easy opportunity finally about to happen.
I don't mind that she wants to use some IC background tied to Glomdoring, I think its admirable to use a background at all.
What I do find annoying is that she doesn't act anything like someone of her age or background should. I can't understand why someone fresh from the portal of fate would be allowed much of an IG role in 'shaping' the glomdoring/gloriana organization. I think she tried to debate with Elryn once or twice, but all I remember is a lot of ego-inflating and pompousness, not much actual philosophy.
I have to agree with Visaeris here. I don't like characters that are created/return just so they can get power/recognition when they see an easy opportunity finally about to happen.
91357
I didnt create Morrigana because I saw an easy opprotunity or any such. I saw a group which needed help with cultural work, people in said group, the active ones at the time at least, were very encouraging of the possibility that I do so, so I wrote an extensive background, and started playing her. Im working with Glomdoring to help them out, as most but Vis seem to appreciate that. (which is a little funny because he reappears even after I did, after "permenantly" leaving the realms, and forswearing Glomdoring, the taint, yatta yatta to join Terentia's order... 0.0)
Elryn2005-04-06 23:28:00
Meh, I guess when I see her do something that would gain her the respect of her peers, I'll feel differently.
Erion2005-04-06 23:58:13
Eh - Erion trusts Morrigana because she's sworn herself entirely to Mother Night. She has no desire for personal gain or loss, and I hope everyone in the upper ranks of the NC take on that point of view.
