That would be great but every single conflict in Lusternia we've had so far have led to continous fighting, I don't think it will ever be possible to achieve a state of neutrality between SW and the two cities, mainly due to the Villages and the major quests.

Serenwilde is suppose to be against cities right? And at the moment I think it would take both cities to even begin to defeat Serenwilde.

Tell me you're kidding. We have barely more than 5 decent fighters, if both cities were to teamed against SW, we have almost no chance whatsoever.

Hmm, I'm not sure. I don't think Celest could beat Serenwilde on it's own, but Magnagora is still filled with plenty of able fighters.

Actually I quite like this Glomdoring stuff. I wish it would progress quicker though. It has "culled the herd" a fair bit, allowed us to push a more anti city attitude, something that, if you were actually among the leadership of Serenwilde you would know is not an easy thing to do when 2/3rds of your populace is snuggling the cityfolk.

I routinely tell Rhysus, in a not so mean way, to go pound sand. I am surprised that his attitude though is to keep coming back to be told again. It is not for lack of trying on my part that Celest "likes" the Serenwilde. Cases like Amaru, though certainly help me to push an anti Celest campaign, and hopefully Glomdoring will encourage that as more people go to join the "new commune".

As for our relations, if Glomdoring is lead by the Night Coven, you can bet we will be at each other's throats. If Glomdoring is led by the remnants of the Summer Court, there may be an uneasy nuetrality, but in both cases I do not foresee any friendships forming except in dire circumstances. Once again though, it relies heavily on the populace going down the same road as the leadership. Now that Ibaesha is in the Moonhart Circle, the anti-city attitude is going along more smoothly, but for the longest time Gregori was one leader, with 3 GM's sitting there on their thumbs and maybe deciding to pipe up if they felt like it.

I have said many times I wish we could ditch the snuggle bunnies and be more what we are supposed to be. Unfortunately we got all of the people who wanted to be a forestal and had no choice in where they could go to be one. So we have the die hard hate the city people, the less desired love the city people, the total "look at me I am so cute and furry" types, and generally a mishmash of people who all feel they decide what the Commune does.

I you actually heard what Rhysus says in his own city then that would push the anti-Celest campaign even further.

Yeah... "You speak as if they deserved any"

Kind of hard to lead a commune when, whenever you speak only your guild listen to you. The number of "You're not the boss of me" situations Alyss ends up in, and people just snub her. What am I supposed to do, Ostracize them all for kicks and giggles? Most none serenguard already think I am some uber facist, the second I start actually using my powers, as in the Morrigana situation, I get torn to pieces by the commune claiming I had no right to order what I ordered. And as a result 4 seperate members of the commune snubbed me for being "nasty" to them. So I generally stick to influencing how things turn out in the commune through my guild and through dealing with other organisations.

I am not above kicking someone out of the Commune if they snub me when I am reprimanding them. I believe I have done it at least twice now.

It is a simple case of. "you screwed up.". "No I didn't and I am snubbing you now because I don't like your leadership.", "ok then, get out." Ostracize.

There are times when people just need to be taught there are consequences, and sadly that is something that MUD's all have a problem with. Death = pray = no real consequence, Break the rules of your society = CDF = no real consequence, Continually prove you are an idiot = Ostracise = no real consequence.

It is a very sad state of affairs that the only people who really suffer consequences, are the leadership. Everyone can do as they wish and please and know that if leadership does to much, they can always contest and get a new leader more to their liking. However, it is easy to replace the Marshall/Warlord/Prince, when you don't like them. It is not so easy to remove a unified front of the the Councils. This is where the problem is. Serenwilde has no unified front.

I think we are getting better in that sense though. I mean, I am not *in* the leadership, but from what I see and hear it seems to be moving towards a more solid front.

The problem with the Moonhart Circle i.e. Alyssandra and Gregori is that when you point out their hipocrasy (Cant spell) to them, they want to get all huffy and start making up rules that dont exist.

I would like to see Serenwilde think more about nature. Most of the time we define ourselves by what we oppose: taint, cities, tainted cities. And then we fall short of even managing to do that some of the time (not nearly as much as the cityfolk think, but yes, we do sometimes). But very little do we actually talk about, or really remember, that we're there to preserve nature from those things. We're an ark. Once we remember that, we can figure out, are we an ark on the flood waiting it out, or an ark that landed after the flood, getting ready to go out and reconquer the lands? But right now we don't even really remember that. We don't think about ecology, we don't think about the rhythm of life and death, we don't think about predation, we don't think about diversity. The closest we do is snuggle the happy pretty flowers and squirrels, and then chant about the Great Spirits, without connecting them back to anything alive around us.

I've already said elsewhere that I want Magnagora to go back from bloodthirsty towards evil again. Scheming, influencing, plotting. Not always against everyone and everything. Not always looking for a fight. Keeping its fighters working for the city's goals, rather than having the city's goals aligned towards giving the fighters someone to fight.

I think what Celest needs to do is all start talking to one another and paying attention to what the others are doing. Celest strikes me as five different cities that don't realize they're sharing the same space. If you point out to one person what another person has been doing, they blink incomprehendingly at you because that's not the city they think they're living in. If the Celestians all started to look around and see what their neighbors are doing, there'd probably be an ugly civil war, unseating of a few leaders, and who knows what would emerge? But at least it'd be an organization that knows what it's doing.

No way to speculate about Glomdoring until we see how Viravain's influence plays out. OOC, I don't want to see an endless intractable unrelenting war between Glomdoring and Serenwilde, because it gets old fast. There's too much else in the world waiting to be done; I don't want to throw all that away just to do this one war thing forever. So I hope Glomdoring finds a way to be that leaves some room for detente, not permanently, but at least some of the time.

Come to think of it, when I think of Magnagora, I think of Nazis. Evil, trying to conquer the Basin (with Taint), the ur'Guard salutes all their members (or are supposed to anyway), and are striving towards many common goals. One observation is that we are generally pretty good at attaining a goal. Getting power, doing that and this, etcetera. But I don't feel the uptight, strict, elitist Nazi attitude. Maybe Nazi is the wrong adjective, but you get my point. Now that I think about it, I don't think we're strict enough in our attitude and speech. Now, being uptight ALL the time may be a pain, but I don't get the sense of "evil" without that strict, attitude.

This, doesn't mean I don't enjoy the way things are run right now, however.

EDIT: Basically, although our laws are strict, in character, we seem too soft.

Actually if we make up rules, they do exist. As the leaders of the Commune, that is our job. To determine where and when a rule needs to be made or what form that rule is to take.

Just because you dislike the rules, means little. You could always contest. Oh, wait... you tried that.

It takes more than one person to contest for leader of the commune for an election to occur. I have no problem with laws. Just imaginary ones.

Just what imaginary laws would these be? Anything that has been more than a circumstantial ruling has been made official law. Other than that most rulings are defined by the circumstances and not always going to be long lasting.

As I stated before, to you and Alyssandra. The Moonhart Circle does not have the power to institute new laws. You can say dont do such and such. That does not make it so.

errr. pass the pipe.

The whole concept of leadership, and the Moonhart Circle is we are the leaders of the Serenwilde. We make the laws. You have three choices. Live with the laws, move out, or contest.

YOu lead the commune and make laws. Those laws are then approved by the commune. Well thats how it started anyways.

Ah, now I remember. In the past, a friend of mine who joined the Serenwilde was all happy about this radical idea that there didn't /have/ to be rules. I thought this would be a great idea. Its a shame it isn't still like that. I don't get why you need more rules than "Don't abuse power or kill other commune members." . Isn't being ostracised by everyone in the commune enough punishment? Why do you need rules?

Gregori, you're a leader, you have responsibility as well as power. Just because someone doesn't wish to talk to you over something doesn't mean you can just throw them out of the commune. From what I've read here, the Serenwilde is even more of a military dictatorship than I've experienced in Magnagora - and all I've experienced in Magnagora is a /purpose/.

Sniffle.