Hmm, okay, let's keep it at the faelings then.

I say they're perfectly fine, if someone else can tell me why they need upgrades, save from constitution, since you said you didn't want a con upgrade, please tell me, and prove me wrong.

Oh, and when I criticized your curing, I wasn't talking about any kind of system, I was talking about just knowing which herbs or purgatives cure which afflictions, which you don't. Hajamin is right about that, you seriously don't need a system, or even triggers, to just survive.

Elryn, dear, I think youre misunderstanding something. Normal Faelings ARENT supposed to be balanced. Just as Orclach, or Krokani get utterly raped in combat, unspecialized faelings fall into the same position. Celestian Viscanti are not meant to be balanced. Magnagoran merian are not meant to be balanced.

Serenwilde Faeling are not meant to be balanced.

Those who choose the lighter paths have a perfect reason why they are weaker, the effects of Glomdoring have changed the flesh of the faelings from there, hardened them, strengthened them from their cute little useless selves which they are in other forests. Seren faelings are supposed to suck. Glomdoring faelings are not.

This is how specializations work. There is also a perfect IC explanation, which you refuse to admit, but still remains. Faelings of Glomdoring are de-punified by the dark powers of the forest acting upon their very beings. Moon energies dont defluff them, and neither will the forces of Ackleberry. Wow... now you kind of lack an arguement in entirety, since there is both an IC reason for the specializations to be so, and for normal faelings to suck.

Ouch, must hurt.

But no one was in the situation of having picked Merian, Elfen, or Viscanti before knowing they'd be gimped outside of their home cities/communes. All the faelings now have been under the impression that we're a normal race, and deserve to be balanced. Now we're told that we're not, and to suck it up and deal because we should just accept that we're weak and will never be balanced.

Apply the same logic to Elfen, Akraasiel. You'll find it doesn't quite work.

If what you're saying is true, that Seren faeling are intentionally supposed to suck (there you go Thorgal), then the whole Faeling concept is relatively useless except as history for the shadow Faelings. Whats the point of having this amazingly beautiful and uniquely crafted idea that is so wonderfully tied to faerie and nature mythology, when the only way the race becomes viable is by taking on the role of spreading disease/death/rot/pain to living things?

The fae concept of Lusternia was the big selling point for me. However, things have changed. Wanna be a faeling? Well, you'd better like death, darkness and ruin. Oh, we keep the originals around for sentimental reasons, but don't expect to achieve anything. Just go and socialize. Oh yes, they're still playable. You just have to accept their new place.

That's precisely the crux: people aren't getting what they signed up for, based on the information presented to them at the time. People keep missing that point. Sure, some deviation is always going to happen, but too much is too much. There's lots of discontent going around and it all comes down to that: people found that through no fault of their own they're not playing the game they signed up to play.

Well said, Gwylifar.

Well, this argument is just circling, you say faeling stats and advantages suck, I say they do not suck. They're completely loaded with advantages, and as only disadvantage, they have low con. Seems fair to me.

I can take single lobstrosities with stagform, yellow, shield, robes and stances, oh and a Torc, mythical resilience and trans combat. Just by hitting them a few times, flying, and recovering. I'm probably a much lower level than you, though.

We're not shockingly awful... we're just close.

How many times does someone have to say that 'balanced' does not mean 'equally good at each and every thing?' Faelings have some crazy good advantages, and only a few things working against them, each of which has some counters. Faelings are very, very good at some things. Better than races that might be better at, say, combat.

On a side note, shadowlord faelings have made aslarans totally worthless, and I AM pissed about that

Like what Olan? Influencing? Anything with an eq bonus is a lot better. Every race should be equally combat able, bar the city races which should excel. (And the argument isn't about why Shadow faelings shouldn't be combat able, but I don't want to repeat AGAIN what it IS about, just read back.)

Faelings make good mages/druids with runes.

And guardians with tarot.

Just because they dont fit the mold you think they should does not mean they suck.

In addition to what was already said...yes, influencing as well, IF it worked the way it clearly should. I've not seen a Divine say it was meant for mugwumps and merians to be better at influencing because of their eq, so I will continue to treat it as a misweave. Therefore, once fixed, faelings will be good at it. Also, they get a lot of ego for debating, which Laysus has clearly noticed. It is simply not true that all things should be equal in every type of combat. Every race, archetype, etc has its weaknesses, and they don't all match up to combat.

Somewhere They said it is working as it should. With Lightning and demesne influence, I'm awesome at influencing now. I just can't take a hit at ALL. Faster runes is nice, and flying is awesome, but the lack of tankiness is really, really annoying me, more than I thought it would.

I just had a look over the comparison, and if I were aslaran I'd be just as annoyed as you are.

But.. can't you use the same reasoning you just did to justify the balance? Aslaran have a lot more int/charisma than shadowlord faelings, as well as a bigger size. If we don't just look for balance in combat alone, Aslarans will be much better influencers than shadowlord faelings, and they will be much better at using their miscellaneous abilities that depend on mana. So you have some fantastic advantages over shadowlord faelings, you just have to find and make use of them.

Does that satisfy you? It sure doesn't satisfy me when it is applied to regular Faelings vs other races.

Actually, shadowlord faeling aren't THAT much better than aslaran, they have -4 intelligence compared, makes a difference.

That's why I started the comment with 'on a side note' and ended by sticking my tongue out! I realize I'm still better in some ways, I love having high int to give health for surge and absurd willpower to ghost all I want. And really, all it amounts to right now is that they are better at being sucky knights compared to aslarans...all speed knights are poor these days. Although blademasters should be doing a bit better now.

There's a lot of pros and cons. I'm perfectly happy to play a Faeling either in or out of the Glomdoring, and in fact I am. Normal Faeling's don't suck compared to Shadowcasters, they're just differently angled. Shadowcasters are better and combat, normal Faelings rock at influencing in villages (although I do agree about the eq issue... getting the influence in before the mob influences back should not reset their timer!). If you go dark, you deal more damage and lose the ability to influence so well.

Shadowlords are better at fighting than Aslarans to some degree, but yea, there's a difference. That Faeling won't get as good a Surge. They'll just be fast. Until speedknights are made more viable, they won't be too hot. I reckon they'll be insanely fun to play, however.

Okay, two things.

One. I love the way the admins have given a little spice to the 'dark forest' concept by having twisted fluffy things, like crazy Viravain and tainted Faelings. Like the idea, the concept, only a few (inevitable) objections to the implementation.

Two. This totally messes me up. I play a Glom Viscanti on Kaar, planned to switch to Elfen next time I logged on, having spent some time coming up with a fun alternative to the typical tainted description.

However, Kaar has from the moment I took him to the forests followed a 'survival of the fittest' philosophy,and now I'm torn between switching him to a Shadowcaster faeling, which seems a little contrary to his personality in some respects, or switching to Elfen as planned and playing a race that would be, in Kaar's mind, 'unfit'.

Actually, the divine have told me that the current way influencing works is -not- a bug.