There's a reason I'm a computer programmer where I deal with computers rather than people...

I wasn't being sarcastic, Roark

Amazing how much you post in one day...

I think the guilds in Achaea will now be like the guilds in Everquest... they will exist for the Roleplayers and serious gamers, but hack and slash people will be able to go around just killing things. Not a bad idea for such a large number of people the GM needs to look over.

Lusternia definly needs more people though, we should have the same number as imperian, which means like more than 60 at any given time, instead of more than 30.

If our ranking at that MUD voting site is anything to go by, we should be getting more people.

To be honest. I read the Achaean forums, and have been keeping quite up to date with the happenings there as many of us began there. Some change had to be made, and while the players resist it, I think the change will be good for that place overall.

As others have posted, they are simply too big to continue running as they do. People get neglected for GF's and don't move up, while certain people who have been around for a long time and know everyone continue to hog all the GF's from their buddies. While not a big deal in a small guild like the Tanjinn over there, it really is crippling for the RP of the larger guilds like the Sents. Many people get disenfranchised with their guild and end up off on their own anyhow. All this does is remove them having to kiss some guild arse to GR3 and then take off on their own. I think it is fair that they should be able to pick their class and not have to deal with the pain of playing your character a way you don't want just to get GR3. Also eliminates the garbage of folks who just boot people for absolutely ridiculous reasons.

I like the setup we have here in Lusternia, and think they kinda used our little system for their next step. It has worked fine here, and I'd even say some of the guilds are much tighter (closer) and better RP'ers than most over there. I think they looked at us, saw we didn't collapse at the base, and will be moving on themselves.

I'm not gonna read through the whole thread.. but I love what they're putting in on Achaea. Kahless will finally be able to get some skills again, without having to suck up and be nice to a bunch of morons more than half his age. Although, not going to be able to learn much in Subterfuge and Venom with 94 lessons.. but it'll be better than nothing.

And you have to remember that this is going in to complement the House system they are putting in. It's been a long time in coming, I think, but Sarapis has finally decided to phase out guilds. I doubt they'll ever be truely gone, but Houses will take their place.

If they introduce NPC teachers who can teach you up to trans, and public forges/enchanting rooms/master crystals/other thingies, it will cure 50% of Achaea's stupidity.

In other words: In Your Face, Magi!!

However, the other 50% will still be there.

Personally I like our system as a good compromise. In Achaea, a guild leader has to put forth effort to promote someone, whereas in Lusternia, they have to put forth effort to keep you from being promoted. That is the key difference, Since people are less likely to exert themselves with effort, we for the most part get rid of the guild requirements BS that drives away new players while still giving the guilds an impression that they are in control; players are for less likely to make hurdles for novice promotion since doing so creates *more* work for the guild leaders, who have to actively monitor novices and execute the holdback verb. (In Achaea's old system, creating hefty guild requirements could create less work for guild leaders if done properly.) Plus since you keep skills when you leave a guild, you don't have problems like people promoting novices they don't like and outguilding them just to wipe out their skillranks and lessons. (Yes, that sort of player abuse has happened in Achaea, and is one reason for the change.) I am certainly glad Achaea didn't carbon copy our lead since I prefer variety over conformity, but personally I like our system better for appealing to those who like strong guilds but minimizing the problems that happened with Achaea's strong guilds in the past.

what's the achaean forums link? Pm me

Has always been a thorn in my side for ages. Aetolia, Imperian, and Achaea have all at one time had Guild Novice Requirements as such-

1. Collect 20 of every herb, no it's uses and demonstrate before a sec. (easily over 200 plants that newbies are "suppose" to get)

2. Purchase a complete set of field plate, as well as two swords. (in Aetolia, nearly 15000 gold for a novice)

3. Learn such and such skill, and such and such skill, but _nothing_ outside this. (What a load of crap...)

4. Kiss guild ass, hope you get through the written essays, the theories, the poems and songs, the , and hopefully, _hopefully_ you might _just_ get out of novicehood. Then you can spend the next 50-60 days of play time trying to get through the rest.

EDIT: Watch your language. ~Shiri~

Those are the ones that really bugged me, they tested -your- OOC skills to see if your -character- should be allowed in? WTF...I should start making Serenguard prove they can bench press 300lb or I am not letting them in *grin*

Am I the only one who *liked* having requirements? The Bards having to be able to *gasp* compose songs, the Sents needing to know all the trees and animals of the forests, the Jesters having to pull pranks, et cetera? I thought it gave the guilds each a unique flavor, having to do something that aligns with the guild's RP purpose. It made the guilds feel like they had something special about them, rather than just having different skills with which to kill others, since nothing ever happened in Achaea for the guild's views to be expounded any other way

I was a GM in Achaea at the point where I realized guild power was going to crash. I was a GM of a magi guild, and no one but the magi seemed to be concerned with how that would effect us, having the most critical things to defend in a guildhall. I think Achaea and Lusternia are two totally different beasts in this respect...I love how "class" works here, but I never got a good feeling about how autoclass would work in Achaea...This trend toward taking guild power, removing their ability to police role-play or defend themselves from people who would literally make alts to enchant illegally or send crystals to disenfranchised magi living in Mhaldor made no sense to me. I always, always hated cities in Achaea, and although I've been away basically since Lusternia opened, I haven't heard any huge improvements in why a person ought to care about cities or work for them. Lusternia's system is vastly superior, as it combines role-playing motivation and game mechanics to foster a realistic sense of loyalty and more coherant ideology than Achaea can ever hope for.

Three reasons Lusty is better than Achaea:

1) We have Malicia

2) We dont have Czanthria, though there is one I believe acts a lot like her, and Im sure anyone that knows Czan can hazard a guess.

3)the skills are just soo cool!

Achaea has Malicia, too. I didn't like her much there though.

Coughhatedcough.

Quite the opposite, we loved her there. It was my fault that whole thing with her occured, which I promptly felt horrible (and still do) for doing that her

I hated you there too!


The irony.

I said 'I'.

That means me. Not you.

misread the post...

I loathed the Sentinel requirements. I went to Achaea on the recommendation of a friend. I had no idea what a MUD was, and I had no idea what I was doing. And they're all like, "OMFG a n00b like write me 50000 word essay and go earn 5000000000 gold and spend it on pointless herbs and stuff and then fetch me a sandwich and then do this and no wrong sandwich you prick." And then you do it all and they're like "Interview oh no we don't like you, A---- (forget her name, Sent secretary, hated me, cow) outguild now".