I like it, especially if it gets worked so dex actually has a decent effect against high-end knights

dex has always worked from what i know...

high end knights = damn near undodgeable

i dodge murphy icarus daevos all the time what you talking about

yeh laysus, learn some combat stancing.

But icaru's concerns, what roark is saying that the samage will remain similair, making them choose between wound healing and damage. but the amount of wounds will change, so actually having decent tohit on your weapons will count.

This is just amazing. Seriously. Some may not enjoy the randomness, like Jello for instance, but this is just another level in originality as far as knight archetypes work. It should be seperate. Damage is just..afterall, damage. Accuracy should be the most important. To me, the to-hit stat only meant that I'd land hits more often against a target, but now it will count for so much more. I'm just beside myself right now. Let me sit down. Needless to say, I'd love to see this implemented. It would also dampen the wound damage for those artified knights putting the nonartified warriors up to par, as far as that goes. The more accurate knight would cause more bm or bc afflictions.

Some clarification...

I'm not interested in runes. That's for another discussion. If you want to talk about that, start a new thread.

DEX is not used offensively. There is no decision to change that yet, nor is there a decision to keep it as it is. All "I've heard that DEX is being changed" talk is pure rumour, as would be any claims that it is staying the same.

There is confusion on how damage is calculated, which is understandable since it has so many inputs. STR racial stat modifies the damage you do in general and is not Knighthood specific, so I'm not figuring that into the equation. STR will remain the same in that regards. I also have STR modifying the damage you dish out to bodyparts, and I don't intend to change that. So a tae'dae will still do as much damage to body parts in regards to what his STR stat does for the damage formula.

The three weapon stats (damage, to-hit, and speed) are actually inputs into a larger formula, and when I refer to othe "to-hit stat" or "damage stat", I'm refering to that formula's output. Your skillpoints can boost all three, and your weapon stats can also boost them, of course. You also get boosts in them by using the weapon you specialize in. (IE-Bonecrushers have all three stats raised when they use a flail, but not when using a sword.) And your combat style works by moving points in some of the stats to other stats. This would not really change (except maybe changing how much combat styles shift the stats around). The only thing that would change is how some of the stats are used.


And now a related question. How hard is it to bash as a newbie knight, and what makes it difficult or easy?

The idea is good, but for it to be realistically balanced there would need to be some sort of limiter on weapons.

Weapons would need to have a sort of meter, which swings between damage and to-hit. Repeated damage by itself can overwhelm over time, repeated wounds over time should be able to overwhelm, but there can't be situations where one can be overwhelmed by both at once.

The easiest way to do this would be to adjust the different weapon types, so for example rapiers when forged have a minimum to-hit and maximum damage, preferably when both combined add up to the same number, to ensure they are always balanced. On the other end of the scale, broadswords could have a maximum to-hit and minimum damage which also combine to make 450, or whatever the number is.

Only runes would then put to-hit or damage above their weapon's maximum, which is fair.

I think if this was implemented it COULD potentially give speed knights some competitiveness with damage knights, but there would always be a nice little differentiation; damage knights would dominate team combat and smaller players in huge quantities, and speed knights could be effective in more drawn-out one-vs-one duels. They could maybe even switch between the styles of damage and speed to suit their circumstance, which would be a nice touch and add some subtle flexibility within the rather limited skillset.

It's hard for a novice warrior. To-hit seems to have no bearing. Most shortswords and clubs forged have a nice to hit rate (200+) and even in concentrated combatstyle, their accuracy is quite poor. I'd say that they land a hit 2 out of 5 blows. I like the Ur'Guard suggested changes to combatstyles.

I think roark, anything to make our combat more dynamic and strategic is an excellent idea.

As far as newbie knight goes, I've heard its a bit rough, I wouldn't know too much personally as I was trans BC with fullplate when i was a newbie knight.

From what our novices say, its a bit of a pain and theren't nothing really producitve for them from say 20-30 in terms of things they can get to and learn about on their own.

It's pretty tough. The novice weapons (clubs, shortswords) tend to not be all that great, and you need two of them to do about the same damage as a kick. When it takes you 4-5 combat rounds of HITS to take out a dirty fink, that's 4-5 rounds where it is hitting back... and low levels can't take that very well. Especially when you have to make up for any misses with further rounds of swinging.

It's just really rough when compared to a number of other classes who wander by, kill a fink in 1-2 curses, and then continue merrily along- though apparently they do chew through mana quickly.

Really high-end clubs and shortswords do help this, though.

I'm not sure about mid-level bashing, but as an Igasho Paladin with a mastery of Knighthood, apprentice Combat, and sacramental shortswords with ~240 to-hit, I don't remember missing finks or hogs at all, and if I did it must have only been once or twice.

It does take a lot more combat rounds to kill them than novice guardians/wiccans/mages/druids, but the accuracy thing wasn't too bad for me.

To be honest, the accuracy thing wasn't EXTREMELY bad for me... most of the time. But when I did miss, I felt it.

Edit: Sorry, typo'd.

Newbie knight bashing is damned hard. A level 10 knight can take about 4 shots to kill a fink, and a level 1 guardian can just cosmicfire it down.

Yes, whereas a Merian Aquamancer novice kills a Fink in one blast, a Knight takes 4-5 swings.

However, if they adjust that, I'd suggest they also look into the advantage Knights have at the upper level of bashing and tweak that as well, since they kill at a much greater speed than the other classes.

I think the most discouraging thing for younger warriors is the fact that you can swing and swing at finks to try to get the widgets in Newton, and then look on in amazement as a mage walks in and kills nearly anything with a single blast. Then you get told your skills will get better, AND theirs will, and then you find out that with transcendent skill in your specialty you can't kill an old rat in one hit with 19 strength.

That's the problem I think

That and telling them that they will need to shell out 20k for fieldplate and near to 20 or 30k for decent weapons when they get serious. And that they have to trans their speciality to be able to bash effectively.

actually tuek mages/druids do more mob damage.

knights are just tankier...we bash well. You also bash well as a moondancer with the passive healing nymph etc

Nymph doesn't work on Astral, where this "high end" stuff goes on, and warriors have much more health than Moondancers, as well as physical protection (mobs do mostly blunt damage, ask any Lucidian (hah.))
So warriors are indeed tankier than other classes at higher levels. And I still think they do more damage to mobs, but eh. I know elemental runes don't count, but if a warrior does 2000 damage to me in a combo unblocked, say, elemental runes or not that means that that's 2000 damage on a mobile. Now if my moonburst does maybe 1200 to an undeffed against magic person, that's only 1200 damage on a mobile, unless they have actual WEAKNESSES to moonburst, which I just can't see.

Bashing as a newbie knight wouldn't be that bad if Trans Knighthood wasn't so damn important when it comes to bashing. I remember before i managed to trans it, i would miss half the time if not more, which can be quite annoying for the young ones.