'Everywhere' = absolute
'In the United States' = what you're talking about.

Don't be such an Americocentric idiot. 'Fedral' law? Hah..

Yeah it sucks when Americans think US is like, pretty much the world, and everywhere else is just nothingness.

You know, I knew some was going to bring that up, and really that's the only word for it. If you cared to read Erion's post, the thing you were replying to which caused me to make that post you'd know that the subject on hand was prayer in American schools. The "Unless you live outside the United States" was directed at the fact that there would be no point to saying "Maybe where you live" if you lived in an area where the laws that are applicable to the topic don't exist, so why would you say it? That would be pretty much a given. You knew full well what I meant, so please, don't waste my time by bluring my meaning until it resembles what you want it to mean, just because you can think of no other reply.

Oh, and there's a little thing called typos you might want to look into.

It was just the arrogance of..

'Did you know prayers are illegal in schools!?'

No they aren't.

'Yes they are! Everywhere!'

Just something for you to think about... Here is a List of Religious Symbols.. Try to spot the 10 commandments.

http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/blsymbols.htm


Then when you are done searching, Count how many of those symbols you see displayed publicly and prominently around the U.S.


When your done counting... see how many of those sybmols belond to Christianity vs other faiths.

You are placing too many limitations on what a symbol of religion is.

If I saw the 10 commandments written on a wall, I at least would view them as a symbol of any religion adhering to them. Because they would spark of the bit of my brain recognising religion. Therefore, to me at least, they are a symbol of religion.

Well anyone who is a religion history student will have a hard time walking into any public building in the U.S. then.

I really don't think peole realize how integrated religion and religions and religious ideas are integrated into the history and modern practices of the U.S.

Once you get rid of Christianity then you'll go after the next biggest religion that you start to notice. And on and on you go untill America is left with communist Russia buildings and abstract new-age symbols that have no intrinsic meaning and you'll spend yoru first 5 years of school figuring out what everything means.

Very true, but nobody really cares any more.

Hey do you think that if I declared the names of the planets offensive to me would they change them or just call me a narrow minded, biased Christian?(Note that I don't care what they're named.)

Why do you guys keep arguing anyway? It's not like your going to convince the other of anything. But I am suprised that you've all managed to keep it pretty low key. Which is uncommon for this type of topic.

Cheers

Edited for speelin' pwoblams.

Because if you remain silent you become a ukranian during WWII, as long as people argue, the extremists will doubt thier cause.

I meant on the forums, Daganev.

What, like anyone outside these forums are going to listen to some nerd playing video games?

How can you think the Ten Commandments are not symbolic of religion? They aren't a picture like those you listed, sure, but I don't know one person who wouldn't think of a religion when the Ten Commandments are mentioned. That is like saying the Wiccan Rede is not religious or the Law of Return is not religious. While you may not know what those things are, I certainly see them as religious and they are part and parcel with many neo-pagan relgions.

What are the Commandments if they aren't religious?

The idea of not allowing things like the Ten Commandments to be placed infront of a Court is reasonable, to me. It is not my religion, it should not play a part in any court proceedings (though we all know that Christian ideals generally will in many cases) and I should not be made to feel as though these rules are ones which I should have to live by in a religious or moral sense.

The flying serpent should not play any role in my health, however, everytime I go to the doctors I will be forced to see it and be reminded of the days doctors killed more people than they healed. (not something you want in your head while getting surgery done)

The point is, the 10 Commandments are not a Symbol of A religion, displaying them does not Establish any Religion as being the religion of the state. The 10 Commandments are not a 'bible' of any sort, nor are they especially binding to any religious practice or theology. (for example, every concept mentioned in the 10 commandments are also expressed elswhere in the bible a minimum of 3 times)

The only reason why people complained about the 10 commandments is because Christians happen to like it, and there is a strong movment in the U.S to attack anything Christian while pretending to be defending themselves from some persecution which does not exist.

I complain about the 10 Commandments not because they are Christian but because Christianity is an assumed norm that I do not adhere to and shouldn't feel as though I should have to.

Persecution, however subtle, does exist against 'alternative' religions.

I will give you an example of something different and see if you can relate it: Using the word 'man' when not being specific to males might not intend to be discriminatory, but studies have shown that, however subtle, it reinforces gender stereotypes and general assumptions based on sex.

I really love how Christians have a victim complex, with nothing to back it up with. When you have your tires slashed for having a Christian bumper sticker, you can complain. When you are fired for wearing a cross, you can complain. When you have your children taken from because your Christian religious practices make you an unfit parent, you can complain. When your parents burn your crucifix, and throw your Bible in the trash, you can complain.

Until then, you're not being persecuted. We're not trying to get rid of Christianity. We don't want religion to go away. We just want to be able to have our religion, without being bombarded by yours.

First of all, I'm not Christian, I don't even have Christian friends.

And the word Judeo-Christian is bubbameyser. There is very little that is Jewish about Judeo-Christian ideas, (its just the PC way of saying 'the west', which is really odd considering Judaism, anyway you look at it is a 'eastern religion'.. but I digress)

I'm perfectly aware of what Religious persecution looks like, I happened to get reminded of atleast 13 different forms of it a year.

And while nobody is persecuting Christians, (like they did in the roman times) 'Christianity' most definitly is, from what I have seen.

Left and right, mentioning the term christianity or anything linked to it, in any context is being called unconstitutional. Teachers are getting fired for using the Declaration of Independence as a historical text because it has the word 'god' in it.

Towns and schools have said No Christmas music on the radio, or are allowed to be performed but Hannukah and Kwanza songs are ok.

Cross after cross are being asked to be taken down by various legal groups, and 9 times out of 10 instead of questining the request or looking into the legal issue, they comply because they would rather spend the 10 billion dollars to replace all the letterheads than to get bad press as defending a christian symbol.

Its actually rather disturbing how many people rejoice at these facts.

Well, I don't know if the hammurabi (sp?) code said that you would be condemned if you didn't follow the rules.
The 10 Commandments, though, should send you to hell if you don't follow them, as per the Bible and old Testament, because God gave them to its people. That makes them religious symbols to me.

That really happens Dag? That is appalling. All religions should just be allowed to be as long as they aren't hurting people.

Yea Manj, there's an example closer to home.

Some shopping centre in Birmingham had a giant santa in the middle, as a lot of them do. It was taken down after complaints, because it's a Christian symbol.

Stuff like that is just sickening, I mean it's all good being a multicultural nation, but not to the point where all our traditions are killed off.

I despise anyone whose parents, grandparents or they themself have moved to the country with a different religion and culture, and decided to take 'offence' at symbols of the established religion. It's taking things a step too far, and I'm no racist by a long shot.

That really sucks. Hull isn't massively religious and I never see stuff like that. Although I do get Bible basher for going to a Catholic school. But that's not officially sort of, legislated stuff.

And Amaru makes a good point. I hate racism (pissed off Jagex to the max on Runescape for constantly reporting people for it.) but I would never move to Israel and start moaning about all the Stars of David.