That one made me laugh. Nice.

Still, though, international organizations -do- condemn the Palestinian use of child soldiers.

I also agree with you that there are lots of freedoms you can have that don't infringe on others' freedoms, unfortunately, picketing funerals isn't one of them.

You misunderstood me.

To say it in the possitive.. Every freedom you have or use WILL infringe on the freedom of another person. (I'm assuming here that 'freedom' means that you have a choice in it, as apposed to breathing which happens weather your allowed to do it or not)

oops, mispost.

pssst.. don't quote yourself it makes you look pompous

Bah! You're faster than my edit! I clicked on the wrong button.

I'm not really sure how you arrive at that generalization. I'll agree that some will, but not every. Is my choice to, say, type this post infringing on someone else's freedom?

Everyone should have the right to get post #166, and they should have the right to respond to your previous post before you post a second one.

By making that post you remove the freedom of other people to make a post in that place.

But people don't -actually- have those freedoms, they are not guaranteed by any system of law or ethics. One cannot infringe on a freedom that does not exist.

Getting post #166 is inconsequential to a person in a semi-normal state of mind. You don't get physically hurt by it and any mental hurt should be realistically minimal.

Getting told I am like the on the bottom of someone's shoe causes a tad more pain than getting a specific number message should cause anyone (if it does cause that person pain it should be looked at individually as it is certainly not a general issue of humanity). When many people do it, it causes me to question myself, to think myself defective in some way, or, it causes me to get angry.

I'm not going to let myself feel like that when I know using simple logic that I am no better or worse than anyone else. I am not going to defend someone's right to hurt others.

EDIT: Watch your language. ~Shiri~

If you don't believe in a Christain god, why do you care what people say what a Christain god thinks? If you do, why would you deny what your books say?

Although I'm pretty sure Christianity says god doesn't hate anyone, especially the sinners... but thats something else entirely.

And if you don't think a post number will cause people anguish, you should go look at the 'Shiri posts too much' thread, and perhaps the various landmark posts that people have written such as... 'Ha! I got post 100!'


And yes, people DO have those freedoms. As part of the unspoken rules of Message boards, as a Moderator you would scream and shout if I deleted your posts to ensure that someone else got post 166 instead of you. However, that freedom is given to -everyone- and as the saying goes.. 'if you snooze, you lose'

In my super long post taht the guy upstairs decided I shouldn't post, I used two fruitstands and the freedom of earning a livleyhood as an example. The basic concept is called 'Opportunity Cost' in Economic terms. In Physics I think its called 'Two objects can not occupy the same space at the same time' (is there a single term for that?)

I would 'scream and shout' because you deleted my posts, not because of what number they were. I might also 'scream and shout' because I have a right to have my posts not be unreasonably moderated. These two rights would not be infringed upon by someone else making a post. There are two different types of freedoms at hand here, we have the ones which I am guaranteed to always have, for example, the right to not have my posts unreasonably moderated, and we have the ones which I am granted for a time. For example, the supposed right to get a certain # post. (Which I totally disagree with you on, but I'll accept momentarily for the sake of this example). The first right does not go away when other people take certain actions. The second one does. Once someone else gets post 166, I no longer have a right to get that post.

It is quite possible to take actions which will not infringe on this first type of right. At least one 'right' of the second type, will generally be infringed upon by any action. All of the rights which truly matter fall into the first category, I have a right to not get killed, and that right doesn't disappear when a guy fires a gun on me. I also have the right to a funeral which doesn't involve people telling my family that I'm in hell. This right doesn't go away once those people show up. I have a right to sit in the very back seat of a bus, but that right goes away once someone else sits there. See the difference here?

The right of free speech is one of those second types. There are certain times when it goes away. For example, I have the right to scream fire, but once a bunch of other people gather around, I lose that right. The right to a certain level of comfort and a feeling of safety is one of the first types. I don't lose the right to feeling secure once a guy with a gun walks up to me. I also don't lose that right when someone shows up (by which I mean comes to me) with a sign about how God hates me, and how it's a good thing when people like me are killed. They can demonstrate in a neutral and public place, and say that their god hates whoever, but searching out people to tell them that crosses a line.

Yes, but all those exceptions and stipulations you make, do not follow the rule of 'My freedoms exist untill they step on the freedoms of another'

Compormises are made, and you obviously don't have a freedom to have a funeral that is protest free because while people may agree its a terrbile thing to do, nobody will stop you from doing it. Should people not be allowed to make protests and mean statements at the Funeral of the person who killed thier only child because they were bored?

I'm not the one who said 'My freedoms exist until they step on the freedoms of another.' The issue is far more complex than that.

I would actually suggest that people should not protest that funeral either. I think they should certainly protest, and prosecute, and all that, but it doesn't seem like protesting the funeral is going to help anything, except maybe make them feel a bit better at the expensive of this murderer's family (who are likely innocent in that muder). However, I suppose that they may legally have that right (I honestly don't know the law on that). I think my point is two-fold, one: This group shouldn't have picketed this gay guy's funeral. It was morally wrong to do so. Two: The family should have some course of action they can legally take to ensure that a nice funeral is not disrupted in this manner. All the other issues are really side points, and not that important to this specific case.

I don't care, I care what people say and think when it starts to happen so much that it begins to hurt or anger. I'm human, I hurt.



You rebutted your own point, 'you snooze you lose'. People might post about getting 100 posts, but it doesn't really matter a great deal to anyone, I bet.

As faethan said, I would scream and shout if you deleted a post for silly reasons. Period.



This isn't physics, it isn't economics, it is social science and there are too many variables to try to place maths-type laws or catchphrases on it.

Economics is social science. As Economics is the study of incentives.

Sociology, whatever, don't play word games.

I actually agree with Daganev, economics is indeed a social science. Still, that was an extremely weak rebuttal.

I know it is a social science, but it didn't address my point at all.

Hmm, I missed the point then.

Science if filled with formulas, even if they are complicated ones. And I think you can never have a just society built on saying 'where my freedoms end yours begin' or whatever, since you will always have freedoms butting heads. Based on the concepts of Opportunity cost and the philosphical and physics princple that no two objects and occupy the same space at the same time.

I didn't say that phrase fits all, I just thought it was a nice piece of wisdom.

Every human experience is subjective and we can't just cry 'free speech' and be done with it.