yeh a timer, but isn't the chance for me to get lusted to you, not the other way around.

and ecroplasm and contagion both work off enemies list, and i use both regularly

Yeah, using lovepotions really isn't a good option for a necromancer.

From what Marsu and Revan told me in the FFa, you have ran so many times that they had to heartstop or fight outside their demense to get anything

edit: this is to ceres

I just had to add my 2 cents. I think there is a lot of hypocrisy going on around here. A lot of the pot calling the kettle black. The truth the way I see it is that everyone has been cheap in some way or another. Everyone has used moves that could easily be complained about as being unfair. No one I know, including myself, can claim to have never used a move that another did not consider cheap. So, perhaps we should only allow those without the sin of being cheap to cast the first stone.

well as far as i'm aware, i have one cheap cheap trick, which I believe is bug abuse anyway

Murphy's so cheap, he always hits me again before I have a chance to cure the last blows! Talk about whoring a skill, all he does is hit me...

LOL

Not Serenguards though, we dont get any tricks, cheap or not. Not with our skills .

Yeah seriously Icarus. No fancy tricks. Maybe aeon for Moon Serenguard, but for Stag, nothing. Nada. All we have is our knighthood special. I could toss a gore in here and there, but I'd much rather use lunge. What's the point of impaling a target with gore if I can't do anything? I can't even withdraw my antlers.

Sorry for the hijack!

Ah, but there is a venom that can easily drain out a person's reserves in no time flat. There is also the wonderful shieldbash for bonecrushers. You have to look a bit harder, and ye shall find the cheap tricks you seek.

She meant unique to Serenguard.

Even Aeon isn't generally useful for Moon Serenguard as a dirty trick unless they're part of a team. Maybe a mugwump could use Aeon to delay the opponent's offense long enough to heal, but for most people, even if you hit with it during a waning moon right after razing speed, they'll be able to hit you again before you can hit them again with it. (Terenas, can you confirm, can you keep someone almost-aeonlocked if you do nothing else?)

My statement said nothing about the skills having to be unique to one particular class or archetype. If you have the ability to pull off some debatably cheap moves, it matters not if the skill is unique to your class or available to everyone.

My main point is that person A comes to these boards posting about some debatable cheap move person B did to him or her, when it can be found that similar charges of cheapness have been laid against person A in the past by a person C or D.

Uh, there's no point for me to try aeon in the first place, it's not like I have any way to stop my enemy from sipping phlegmatic and curing aeon, only way I can even hope of giving anorexia is by slitthroat, which isn't actually stopping anyone from eating.

yep, aeon is useless for serenguard. Maybe they should've included the aeon skills in wicca, so that the 3rd skillset sharded by warriors and guardians in the commune could actually be designed to benefit both classes, or something simnliair with stag. Necromancy somewhat benefits both guardians and warriors, but it still leans towards guardians in the way of sacrifice.

Lichdon touch is useless for any warrio rthat can spell envneom flail with mactans... shrivel is also crap for both sides due to its long eq. darkchant feed is the same....

But..I think the 3rd skill for warriors needs some serious looking at in all cases...except for maybe paladins who have the best offensive 3rd set in sacraments....judgement and inquisition. With inquisition all you need to actually DO is give them heretic and infidel, and any smart fighter is gonna run or stop attacking you to prevent the threat of actually being inquisitioned because if you manage to get out of inquisition alive, then you had better get running cause its a bad idea to fight undeffed, and withit stripping your rezz defence its doubly bad news.

I'll agree with this simply on the grounds that while warriors may or may not be good enough as is by virtue of Knighthood/Bone/Blade alone, the third skill seems basically to be tacked onto the end in all cases, and is more appropriate to the Wiccans/Druids/Guardians. I'd say they should create their whole new skillsets that meshed with them better (and lower knighthood's efficiency of course, so they wouldn't be overpowered), but I don't think they'd do it.

Well, in achaea they had like groves for druids, and groves for sylvans, the skill was still the same name, but was slightly different so as to not make sylvans overpowered.

Perhaps a necromancy for guardians and a necromancy for warriors is the answer. Could do the same with moon and stag, because like you said shiri (can't believe I'm agreeing with you here) it defnintley feels like its a second thought type skill. Hell I can imagine roark and estarra designing stag and moon over a few drinks one night.

Roark: *hic* ayyy estaraaaa, ya knowsh i think them warriorsh in serenwilde, rugh they nedds a lasht skillset.

Estarra: *giggles drunkednly* you knowsh raork, it'd be hellsh funneh if we gave them moon and shtags, and watch them complain about it

Roark: *snicker* Shure, why the hell not?

Estarra: *swoon* Now cmere roark you big hunk of man meat!

(No offence intended to either parties....*duck*)

Druids and Sylvans shared Groves, same skillset in both classes
Druids and Sentinels shared Metamorphosis, same skillset in both classes
Druids, Sylvans, and Sentinels shared Concoctions, same skillset in all three classes

Sentinels got Woodlore as a unique skillset
Sylvans got Elementalism, which was basically the same as Mages, but altered slightly with things like Viridian form.

yeh thats what i meant gregori

I was trying to remember, such a long time, but they had 2 different versions of a skill which is what i was trying to highlight, and therefore saying it wouldn't be too hard to code