Daevos2005-05-19 19:13:23
Because Drago made a foolish decision and thought that the Nihilists would get great upgrades in exchange for this unnecessary downgrade...
Unknown2005-05-19 19:20:15
Still...
If envoy report contains something like: "Our proposal is to upgrade skills A and B in that way, in exchange we could get a downgrade in skill C", and only C downgrade gets implemented "because envoy suggested so"... something's wrong.
EDIT: So envoy reports should never mention downgrades if that's the case...
If envoy report contains something like: "Our proposal is to upgrade skills A and B in that way, in exchange we could get a downgrade in skill C", and only C downgrade gets implemented "because envoy suggested so"... something's wrong.
EDIT: So envoy reports should never mention downgrades if that's the case...
Terenas2005-05-19 21:14:01
Envoy reports are meant to -balance- the class, not make it absurdly powerful. Downgrades where downgrades are due, and upgrades where upgrades are due. Putrefaction needed a downgrade according to some people, and the admins agreed.
Daevos2005-05-19 21:22:38
The point is that none of the Necromancers thought it needed another downgrade, none of us are happy with it being downgraded, and all of us want it changed back as soon as possible. Even Drago didnt think it needed a downgrade, he just made a dumb decision and thought upgrades for the Nihilists were worth putre being downgraded.
Murphy2005-05-19 22:41:59
and yes, downgrades were asked for in general.
Upset at escozul? elemental runes? I asked for all that to get the nerf.....but i think everyone should quit bitching for a bit, there new upgrades may make sacrifice and crucify doable from a warrior POV
Upset at escozul? elemental runes? I asked for all that to get the nerf.....but i think everyone should quit bitching for a bit, there new upgrades may make sacrifice and crucify doable from a warrior POV
Daevos2005-05-19 22:56:55
Lessening the effectiveness of escozul and lowering the strength of elementals were both reasonable downgrades, which I suggested and which negatively affected me personally. But the putre downgrade is not reasonable. Nor do I care much about crucify and sacrifice, I would be quite willing to see both of them deleted in exchange for putre how it used to be. Simply because I favour defense over offense, and I can't for the life of me see how downgrading this skill balances the game.
Unknown2005-05-19 23:01:09
QUOTE(terenas @ May 19 2005, 09:14 PM)
Putrefaction needed a downgrade according to some people, and the admins agreed.
121195
That's exactly what I'd like to know - why it needed a downgrade.
Xavius2005-05-19 23:11:54
QUOTE(Jello @ May 19 2005, 12:18 PM)
...and a damage shield skill that is only maybe worth using shouldn't be in the game.
121101
If I use numen, I might not die, but neither will you. It's only maybe worth using. Therefore, I propose we remove numen and just upgrade halo into something obscene.
(Kidding, really!)
Unknown2005-05-19 23:15:25
Putrefaction did need a downgrade.
And so does Numen/Halo.
And so does Numen/Halo.
Unknown2005-05-19 23:47:20
I can't say much about halo, but numen does not need a downgrade.
Unknown2005-05-19 23:53:55
It might have needed a downgrade, but this isn't the kind of downgrade it needed. Putrefaction is different from every other damage shield skill in the game because of the damage side effect that continues when you're not being hit for any reason and is less indirectly effective because of that.
What it looks like they've done is downgraded it closer to the level of other damage blocking skills, but I don't think they took the constant nature of the passive damage into account, and no one's tried to argue it's worth using at this point, only that it did need downgrade.
I would suggest a power cost to start it up, or maybe even a small but constant drain on the reserves, or maybe even a chance of it giving afflictions at the tick.
What it looks like they've done is downgraded it closer to the level of other damage blocking skills, but I don't think they took the constant nature of the passive damage into account, and no one's tried to argue it's worth using at this point, only that it did need downgrade.
I would suggest a power cost to start it up, or maybe even a small but constant drain on the reserves, or maybe even a chance of it giving afflictions at the tick.
Daevos2005-05-19 23:55:52
A power cost to start it would be acceptable if it went back to the way it was.
Unknown2005-05-20 00:00:53
Another idea, if numen is fine, to make it like numen. After enough time has passed with it up you get the message "Your flesh has recovered from the touch of Gorgulu" or "Your flesh has shrugged off its putrefaction" etc. You have numen, only less effective (original putre), and probably costing a bit less power.
Xavius2005-05-20 00:22:08
Hey, if we're downgrading numen, I want the Seren magic resistence trashed. It's beyond the realm of possibility for me to kill you beasts with 20 int, war blessing, and quickened cosmicfire. Everything else dies to it, even a Celestine with numen up!
Alger2005-05-20 00:54:21
if you say putre and numen needed a downgrade then so does the protective properties of drawdown.
and...
Murph im sorry but thats just bull... we tell you when we think something is too strong. We've asked for downgrades on a lot of our availble things, be it numbness, escozul, runes or what not and not once have we blinked about such things. The difference was they needed downgrades and we pushed for them because we acknowledge the fact that such things need to go of get toned down We're not on a quest here to become overpowered but when things that dont need nerfing gets the axe... can you honestly say you think the change to putre was justified?
and...
Murph im sorry but thats just bull... we tell you when we think something is too strong. We've asked for downgrades on a lot of our availble things, be it numbness, escozul, runes or what not and not once have we blinked about such things. The difference was they needed downgrades and we pushed for them because we acknowledge the fact that such things need to go of get toned down We're not on a quest here to become overpowered but when things that dont need nerfing gets the axe... can you honestly say you think the change to putre was justified?
Unknown2005-05-20 00:57:10
Numen is fine
Geb2005-05-20 00:59:29
You need to learn to elaborate on your responses Shiro. Give us a reason why you feel something is overpowered or fine as it is. Don't just pop on with your one liners and then expect people to respect what you have written.
Unknown2005-05-20 00:59:33
Yes, Drawdown with it's flat 15% reduction as a transcendent ability. Compared to the 25% across the board of Halo (a relatively low skill), and the 50% across the board of Numen (another relatively low skill, virtuoso?), and the 33% physical reduction of Putrefaction.
Unknown2005-05-20 01:02:32
Numen already has enough drawbacks, that warrent for such a good defense. 40 seconds and four power.
Unknown2005-05-20 01:02:57
Make putrefaction 50 seconds and 3 power?