If it hasnt occured to you, Paladins don't get Halo. In fact, numen is our -only- protection, save for fullplate and a plume. Hell, make demonscales the same as halo, who cares. Ur'guard won't get demonscales. And Nihilists have almost the best passive skills in-game. Demon with shackles, paralysis, throw some contagion, slow em down with ectoplasm, hangedman and aeon, etc. Hell sometimes I can't even get in some attacks for quite a long freckin while due to the constant writhing, afflicts, et al. Though Nihilists and Ur'guard lost their biggest protection, maybe their only protection was too good in the beginning.

What the gods should do is put putre up to where it was before, except add something like a large endurance and willpower drain along with the old health drain or something. Just something so that putre users cant keep it up for hours on end without nothing bad coming of it.

This is what a Brood Viscanti would look like without a sip penalty.


Level 80

14 con: 3980 health (Sip 558-836, 697 avg)
09 int: 2780 mana (Sip 414-620, 517 avg)
10 cha: 3020 ego (Sip 442-664, 553 avg)

Health Regen: 079, 199, 331 (Mercy: 199)
Mana Regen: 055, 139, 231 (Perfection: 139)
Ego Regen: 060, 151, 251 (Beauty: 151)

Sparkleberry: 398 health, 278 mana



This is what they look like with a level 2 sip penalty.

Level 80, sip -2

14 con: 3980 health (Sip 446-669, 557 avg)
09 int: 2780 mana (Sip 331-496, 413 avg)
10 cha: 3020 ego (Sip 354-531, 442 avg)

Health Regen: 079, 199, 331 (Mercy: 199)
Mana Regen: 055, 139, 231 (Perfection: 139)
Ego Regen: 060, 151, 251 (Beauty: 151)

Sparkleberry: 398 health, 278 mana

Try comparing celestines to nihilists before you say they have the best passive skills in game.
Hell, why not compare them to demesne users while you're at it?

You're acting like we're the only ones that can get mercy and eat sparkleberries

(Sorry about the double post.)

And my point about the last post of Nihilists having nice skills that stop others from attacking, was the point that they really don't need -that- much protection. Yeah they need some protection, but not as much as before. Make demonscales like halo and they won't even need putre. Demonscales, chainmail, shield, and don't forget combat stances, warriors barely stood a chance against a Nihilist with old putre.

I hate that nothing bad coming of it bit.

Thadd, there IS upkeep, we get hurt by it. Lower to lower middle level ur'guard couldn't keep it up, because they didn't have the max health necessary to be able to regen for maintenance.

Yes, Halo is Celestine only. I think the answer is, upgrade Demonscales. Putrefaction was mostly just needed the change with Ur'Guard.

Numen is about equal to Putrefaction, with Numen coming out a bit on top. Numen is situational too, it's a defense you can't leave on 24/7, which I think is what they intend Putrefaction to be as well, an activate when needed ability to give you a little tankiness in the right situation.

But Halo is immeasurably better then Demonscales.

That'd be great Thaddues, if stancing was an exclusive skill that nihilists got.
Anyway we've been kinda steering off topic here, so let's stay on it.
Or maybe we are, since we're comparing everything else now.

What would I give for halo... it sounds awesome.
Actually, I see clearly now that we should compare numen with putrefaction and halo with demonscales.

Also, Tuek, let's just be practical.

Some of us need to sip in order to maintain now, but who honestly wants to spend their health vials healing self-inflicted damage, leaving themselves vulnerable to outside damage?

Nihilists just slightly win out over Celestines in hindering capability (this does not mean their passive effects are better), due to access to shackles, which Celestines don't have.

That's why it is only turned on when needed.

You don't see Celestines/Paladins running around with Numen up 24/7 do you? I think the downgrade was brought about to force people to use Putrefaction in the same way. Only in emergencies, not for extended periods of time.

In that case, it should have been on a time limit with no upkeep. Just because they are counterparts doesn't mean they have to be the same.

Numen has no upkeep.

Alright, lets compare Celestines and Nihilists.
Celestines: Paralysis
Nihilists: Paralysis
OK

Celestines: Kneel
Nihilists: Shackles
Nihilist wins.
Kneel is a joke for a stun skill. In fact I love when I spar Celestines who have angel on stun, since the stun really has no effect on me, since its so short of a stun.

Celestines: Heretic, Infidel, Inquisition
Nihilist: Contagion
Celestine wins.
Not really. Icewall all exits, and tumble out when your heretic/infideled, then continue on your running spree until the glowing goes away. How easy.
Contagion- Constant afflicts, and not really bad afflicts by the way. Gives some real nice ones when added with contagion.

Now that a Nihilist can sting/fling at once, they have another way to add to the offensive. Random afflict + your choice of either webbing, random mental affliction or aeon.

im sorry tuek, but demon shackes is not better than transfix

Numen reduces all damage by 50% for 4 power?
And putrefaction reduces physical blunt and cutting damage by 30% with all it's penalties.
If putrefaction reduced all damage I'd have a lot less more points to argue.

Tuek, Putre offers no where near the defense that Numen does. I would trade Putre for Numen in a second flat, only if I couldnt trade it even faster than that.

That was a lot of posts.

Anyway, whomever said Serenguard was better than ur'Guard has to be on something. The upgrades to Stag were mainly cosmetic, as Tuek pointed out, instant kill at 1/4 health is a joke, but it's better than something. Ringwalk is decent and we needed a skill to hinder movement since all the Ritual users get Carcer anyway.

For people that don't think putre didn't need an upgrade, why not go look at ur'Guards tanky mofos like Daevos, Valek, Ixion, and Grukh? I'm sorry, but with Putre Daevos and Valek could tank 25 level 2 guards and managed to kill them all over time with just simple walk in, hit, run out. Daevos have claimed that against most knights, he doesn't even have to sip, he just eats sparkleberries to keep his health up. You get rediculously high health people with insane physical protection and guess what, almost no one can even come close to killing them with physical damage.

I would agree that the Nihilists got hit the hardest on this change, but in regard to ur'Guards, you guys are already insanely tanky. Putre's health drain mean that it's an ability that should be used with care, not just turn on and leave it to enjoy permanent 1/3 physical protection.

When we're at it (sorry if it's too much of a hijack) I think that absolve should have additional requirement on top of half mana, just like it is with wrack. Prone maybe (don't they have something like kneel in pacts, not sure about that). If we have to manage to keep them below half mana, time the demon attack with shackles (and it needs to have invested only shackles, because you wouldn't be able to rely on it if you invest few other afflictions as well), they should too.

They aren't the same. Putrefaction has no initial cost and lasts indefinitely, whereas Numen has a cost and only lasts a short while, but no upkeep. Giving putrefaction a larger upkeep changed it from a skill that can't be used indefinitely, while not engaged in combat.