I don't think anyone has been arguing that the downgrade to putre wasn't huge, even after it was adjusted to 10% of current health or 300. I personally think that the old putre was way too good in that just enchantment regeneration is able to keep it up, especially for the benefits it confirred.

Attach a power cost to turn it on, or slightly less health drain than now but that would make it actually worth using is fine. But bringing it back to the way it was would make it too powerful.

Well, I used no parrying or stance in that test. Wasnt trying to evade him, but that would have skewed it even more for putre hurting more than it helps.

Terenas, nobody with less than 5k health can cover putre with just mercy regen, prior to the change. Even then if you had just slightly above 5k it still doesnt cover it because putre hits faster than regen, though youll be able to maintain it with minimal effort. The only point where we can maintain putre with just mercy regen is when we hit 6k health and even then it eats our whole regen. So instead of gaining 300 health like all of you do we gain around 30 or so health... you simply cant say it didnt cost anything.

edit : yeah that was my point daev, was just adding to it... thats just rebound and natural miss rate. Not considering parry, stancing, hindering, etc.

Well I guess this is a clear message to the Furies, or whoever approves envoy stuff, don't just automatically accept any downgrade an envoy suggests!

That's nonsense, in the old times, an ur'guard with 3k max health and mercy could NOT keep putre up. Like Alger said, it's only when they hit about 5k max health that they were able to keep it up, and even then it ate their regen, so they had 33% protection (only against blunt/cutting, mind you), but just about no additional regen. Everyone seems to be arguing as if the cost of maintaining putre is nothing, when it actually hurts. The benefits it confers only covers cutting and blunt damage, so it is only useful against 4 out of 12 total guilds.

If you think about it, the selective one-third protection it offered, was at the price of ongoing damage to one's self, so we weren't getting away scot-free. Numen on the other hand, has NO repercussions, and HALVES damage of ANY type. A power cost and time limit balances it out. For the benefits it conferred, in comparison to Numen, I think it was fair for putre to be able to be maintained at an ongoing cost, and only if you were strong enough to maintain it.

Actually, it was good against druid staff, geomancer staff, hailstorm, boulderblast, some geo and aqua demesne effects, and perhaps some other skills I am not mentioning. Not saying the downgrade was the correct decision or not, just correcting the assertion that it was only good against the warrior guilds.

Squirrels and thorns, too.

Well, since you thought it was so obviously superior to any other defensive skill in the game. I went back and substituted the putre hits to their former level, which was a base damage of 225.

With the new Putre:

Straight Damage: 2111
Putre Damage: 2155
Total Damage: 4266
Hit Accuracy: 10/13

With the old Putre:

Straight Damage: 2111
Putre Damage: 1125
Total Damage: 3236
Hit Accuracy: 10/13

Without Putre:

Total Damage: 3926
Hit Accuracy: 10/13

Damage Percentages:

New Putre: 108.66% of the damage that was taken without putre
Old Putre: 82.42% of the damage that was taken without putre

I guess the fact that it once gave some benefit made it too great a skill.

Also saying it gives a 1/3 defense against physical attacks is kind of false, since it negates alot of that damage reduction by damaging you itself.

Putre at least had a good upkeep cost for this 33% reduction. Look at Halo and Numen which have none.. hell Halo not only protects "almost" as much as putre did, but it protects against all types of damage at no upkeep cost or anything while putrefaction, a necromancers only similar skill, is nulled.

I have never ranted about a skill before, but this seems worthy of ranting to me.

also while there are other skills that do physical damage most of it do partial and/or the damage they do would not add up to a number that made putre beneficial. Like tortures most damaging property was always the bleeding it did afterwards.. another example a geo staves for 1000 thats like 25% blunt or something so thats 82 damage saved lets say he does that twice between ticks 164 damage saved... then we hit ourselves for 255... nice aye.

Have murphy and Drago work together on the necromancy enovy report, and have it changed.

Like Alger said, boulderblast, staff and others are only partial blunt/cutting damage. Squirrels and thorns, I don't know, but I know even without putre they hit me for maybe 200, so I save... 60 damage? One tick of the old putre hit me for 255. Hence I didn't count those.

Yeah, but you're getting hit with thorns/squirrels/cudgel all at once, not just one of them per tick.

Squirrels is 100% blunt, thorns is 100% cutting, cudgel is 100% cutting. All hartstone have that isn't physical is storm.

*laughs* Alright, 5 out of 12!

Still less than half *sighs*

hehe even then... cudgel is like 600 damage to me right now, demesne effects are what on 10 second timers putre is on a 7 second timer... lets say you do 2 cudgels 1200 then squirrels and thorns lets say 1500? 33% thats 495 damage -255 thats 240 which is pretty much like 16% protection give or take (sorry manual calcs), not considering shielding and hindering, or that demesne effects actually hit slower than putre damage so in reality that 16% goes down... see how drawdown is better?

Not that putre wasnt good... it just wasnt that strong. It was situational and good when we were against a heavy physical damage group, but when it comes to groups, well its not always heavy physical damage. One thing it was always good for though was hunting, if we had to take on multiple mobs then we putre up before going in... Now though... bleh...