The way i remember being told was if I'm not sure things are bugs just issue it. I asked you if its a bug and you didnt give me a straight answer so i issued it... and as an observation issues do get responded on faster than bugs. Also usually the case is we bug something several times over a period of time and nothing happens... then we issue it then after a day or two someone approaches us about it.

Yes, you might get an Admin, NOT a coder, coming to you and saying we've moved your issue to a bug.

So someone want to post a test of putre after the fix now to see how much it actually drains?

yeh terenas, it's not 10% of current health, with a minimum of 300 hp per tick

1371h, 1993m, 3088e, 10p elrx-
Your health is quickly deteriorating.
1071h, 1993m, 3088e, 10p elrx-
Your health is quickly deteriorating.
771h, 2059m, 3088e, 10p elrx-
Your health is quickly deteriorating.
471h, 2125m, 3088e, 10p elrx-
Your health is quickly deteriorating.
171h, 2191m, 3088e, 10p elrx-
Your health is quickly deteriorating.
Your flesh has decayed into almost total liquid and you fall to the ground, spreading into a pool of stinking green liquid.

its 10% and the damage is capped to go no lower than 300, so its a across the board downgrade still. And totally ridiculous.

Just give us back putre how it used to be and cut the defense on it if there were seriously problems, which I doubt. But dont give us a skill that is far more a liability than a asset.

Just to get back on topic, I would like to ask how you justified your turning putrefaction into the most unusable skill in the skillset (this honour formerly belonged to Shrivel, but thats now even more combat and bashing viable than putrefaction).

The guild did some testing pretty fast after these went in, and putrefaction isn't even useful when you are being teamed anymore. You have to run faster with putrefaction up against anything on Astral than you do without, and now we have trouble with more than one of anything on any of the spheres.

To be perfectly frank about it, how can the ur'Guards and Nihilists in particular, hell make that Magnagora in general - see it as anything OTHER than the administration purposely making our skills progressively weaker and more useless whilst we see the opposite happening to the other three organisations?

1) Chasm gets slowed down, Aquamancers get a more viable instakill than wrack.
2) Barbedtail gets slowed down to its own 8 second passive (technically) skill instead of being a 3 second active skill. Sacraments get upgraded Dazzle (which while stopped by blindness if its up - still the afflictions it gives are still worth more than the 2p it costs to activate).
3) Serenwilde gets Shafts/Ringwalk/Ancestralcurse/Moon Dark upgrades - with Moon Dark becoming the most potent room based attack in any guilds arsenal.
4) Lichdom touch gets sped up. Whats the point of speeding it up when it is still only cured by fire and takes 5 second balance to use? Shrivel is of more use - at least that has a chance of slowing down a warriors attack to one swing if you manage to time your shrivel so it hits after they send the command to Lusternia and before it reaches Lusternia.
5) Putrefaction is made the single worst skill in Necromancy, with a citywide boycott on it for anything other than testing, because suddenly a 7/7 dragonscales defense doesn't seem like that bad a thing.

Lets compare this to the upgrades.
1) Leech is the only ability to drain mana from an opponent into you. Yay, its useful in a mana drain war. When a warrior is draining your mana, he isn't hitting you with anything that can kill you, and thus as it goes on gives you more time to heal and become less killable.
2) Duststorm. Makes a Geomancers demense actually potentially useful if your opponent doesn't know any of the exits and doesn't spam every direction until he finds one and begins tumbling.
3) Taint wyrm's dig up people and items. This is good if they don't manage to burrow two levels below the ground - unless the wyrm is capable of burrowing multiple levels unlike anything else in the entire game.
4) Barbedtail being moved to its own 8 second timer. Well this technically could be called an upgrade, though it means that Nihilists really don't have any viable offense outside of Soulless unless they are feeling bored and want to waste time to try for a wrack or sacrifice.
5) Leech becomes our only skill to drain mana from your opponent into ourselves. This is fine and dandy in a draining war, but the extra drain on Amissio is more important because it still packs the bigger punch, and while a warrior is using leech/amissio on you, it means he isn't able to do anything that is able to kill you, so you can just concentrate on making yourself even more unkillable by him.
6) Warrior only changes - so far they look like extremely powerful, and the blademaster ones actually seem to have some synergy and sense about them now, though I am waiting until the rest of the warrior stuff goes in and we can actually test the new system in-depth before I make many judgements about it.

And to be honest, I don't know how good heartpierce will be as a skill since it deals about 1k to Thorgal and now that he can't use putrefaction anymore the extra 2-400 he gets from a successful heartpierce probably won't seem to be much more. Once it has been tested against the other archetypes more we can get a clearer picture of the way things are headed.

Oh yeah, back to putrefaction and about why it has been moved into the "never use even when your desperate" basket. With it up, we take more damage from one, two or even three astral mobs with putrefaction up than we do without. Every tick for any ur'Guard with surge, the first tick of putrefaction will indubiably drain for about as much as you sip for, and the second one isn't really much less. Putrefaction is a skill designed solely to help against other warriors, but how useful is a warrior defense skill that deals as much to you as your opponents swing? In fact, putrefaction is significantly worse for a warrior when he surges than when he doesn't surge. What is the point of putting putrefaction up as a defence in one on one combat, when the drain from putrefaction will take the health you surged for off before it beomes managable with your opponents damage. The extra sipping bonus from being surged? Not when it halves your mana so all they have to do is start hitting with Mantakaya to paralyse you a few times and drain it, and then you are in an even worse position - non-surged health and no mana, without even the surged bonus sipping to counteract it.

Since I am starting to ramble, I will leave the rest I have probably missed or forgotten out of it for another post if I need to write one on it.

Last I recall, every tick is approximately 7 seconds for putre. Where are your regeneration? I regenerate around 300 health with Mercy with 5700 health around every tick, not including in racial, or anything. The 300 per is 50 more health than it was originally. From Daevos's log, it drained him exactly 300 health everytime, is 50 more health that high of a difference? As for ur'Guards that can reach health as high as 6k and beyond, you can sip around 1000, eat sparkleberry for 600, and regenerate for easily 300 to 400 every tick. Until someone actually post a log showing putre in a combat situation, it doesn't seem like it is that huge of a downgrade, especially when you're only losing 50 more health every tick.

Though that post was pretty rambly, it's not draining 300 health per tick on a surged person. 300 is the minimum, otherwise it drains 10%.

So, if you're surged up to 5700 health, it'd drain 570 a tick, not 300. I'm pretty sure the ticks are faster than 7 seconds.

terenas, me vs two goats doing everything but sparkleberry (I don't use Sparkle for bashing except emergencies) - I had to run before I took the first goat down to half because I was about to die.

From Daevos's log it is draining him only 300 health per tick. I'm pretty sure I've seen him as high as 5k health without surge, around 4500 on average. Why was it draining him only 300 then?

Jello can't take one goat without having to run, what's your point?

It's been said why it was draining him for 300 then a few times now on this page as well as on previous pages. I feel like I'm spoon feeding you here.

10% of current health, minimum of 300. So if his health is below 3k it'll do 300, if it's over 3k it'll do 10% of what his health is at.

I have 6k health and am a race pretty much built to be a warrior. Jelaludin is a Trill with Crow. Do I really need to say any more on that?

Oh and the reason it was only draining Daevos 300hp a tick, was because he was below the minimum amount of health. it deals 10% of maxhealth or 300 damage every tick whichever is higher.

Some quick equations off the top of my head... lets say you have 5k health, don't use putrefaction. You get hit for 1600, mercy for 250, sparkle for 500, health vial for 850. You've healed 1600 of that damage damage and broken even. Of course, sparkle is slower than health vial and health vial is slower than most people's attacks, so you will die eventually as bleeding or mana dying out from surge effects hit you.

Now, let's say you have 5k health and have putrefaction up. The 1600 damage is reduced by 1/3rd, you take 1072 damage, then 500 from putrefaction. So, 1572 damage. You heal 1600, putrefaction has made a 28 points of damage difference.

However, real damage is blocked by aura and shield, while the putrefaction damage is never decreased by such. Still, the amount it drains will go down as you take more damage. Is putrefaction worth it? Maybe. Is a damage blocking skill that is maybe worth it good? Afraid not.

The point is obvious I think. In order for a damage blocking skill that cuts 1/3rd and then damages you by 10% to be worth it, the 1/3rd must be more than 10% of your max health. So as long as someone does 1500 or more to you when you have 5k health, putre is worth it. The question is, does anyone do that much without using elemental runes or stuff that putrefaction doesn't effect? I don't think so.

Terenas............

Refer previous post.

Putre = 10% of CURRENT hp (as opposed to max) with a minimum of 300.

It hurts more as your health is higher....much like our current tax system

You're assuming that putre will tick in right as you got hit. Unless someone can post accurately what the time is in between each ticks, then you can't just automatically assume that putre is useless. Daevos posted some tests before on the forum, it is possible to attack twice in between each putre ticks.

So if you get hit for 1072 damage initially, then another 1072, then 500 from putre. That's a total of 2644 health.

If you didn't have putre, it would had been 3200. That's a difference of 556 health between having putre and not having putre up. You're coming out with a total of 15% damage reduction.

P.S.- Yeah, didn't notice the 10% of current health.

Obviously they're simple equations. The point is that whether or not the skill is worth using is debateable, and a damage shield skill that is only maybe worth using shouldn't be in the game.

Another example there is that if someone leaves the room via running away, or you run away yourself, putre still damages you. It's a very complex situation and was deffinitely worth using before, but only maybe worth using now.

If they think it's too strong I would just give it a power cost. 3-4 to start it up?

one thing you missed jello does anybody reach that high with pure physical damage since putre only reduces physical damage anyway.

and yeah by my count putre is about 7-8 seconds... but thats me counting

Nah, I pointed out that no one without elemental runes does that much.

I can't find the reasoning behind this downgrade anywhere nor can I think of one. Is anyone able to tell me why it needed to be changed?