Apparently there's been a.. clarification of policy... since my departure that makes it illegal to pull people into enemy territory even if they're standing outside it attacking.
While I can understand not permitting distance summoning, or not allowing people to summon their enemies to one room away from a city/commune and pull them into in..
If an individual/individuals are sitting outside an area, actively attacking into the area, from a tactical perspective it would make sense to use the area's defences to repel the siegers(since that's what they are). Not being allowed to drag them into an area is one thing, but by sitting out side, I would think that individuals were willingly accepting risks.
Anyone else think that this is a rule that should at least be reconsidered? There should be risks for sitting outside an area pinging away at defenders while sitting in a demesne.
Least that's my thoughts. Am I alone?
Unknown2005-05-24 01:32:39
It doesn't apply to the planes. They're just mad that they aren't winning today despite the usual numerical superiority.
Shiri2005-05-24 01:32:40
Don't forget you can do that, but with guards and statues/totems.
Unknown2005-05-24 01:34:34
QUOTE
ANNOUNCE NEWS #294 Date: 5/24/2005 at 1:30 From: Estarra, the Eternal To : Everyone Subj: Fights Across Borders
This is a reminder regarding Lusternia's policy against circumventing the PK system by finding ways to push people into enemy territory or out of their home territory. If there are ways to do so, it is an exploit for you to use them. Please report such a bug immediately as these are ones we would like to close.
I think the spirit of our PK system is rather clear. If you want to attack someone in enemy territory, you have to go there to do it. The only exception are a few ranged attacks where the defense is simply moving two rooms away. I'm tempted to even take away abilities to attack from adjacent locations in separate areas but others have convinced me that this isn't necessary. If someone does attack you from an adjacent territory in anotherarea, that is an automatic declaration upon you and you (and your allies who defend you) are then free to kill that person without repercussion.
We've recently coded tackle, barge and push to close the loophole where you could push others into enemy territory or out of your home territory (home being your city or commune). Magical attacks that do the same, such as summon, gust and beckon have already been coded in the same manner for some time. If you know of other loopholes, please let us know.
See that thing I bolded? DO IT
This is easily the "best" solution to the matter. It would stop "sieging". If they wanna sit there and do.. whatever.. Sure. But don't let 'em attack us.
Unknown2005-05-24 01:38:16
It really doesn't apply to the planes. I was pulled out of the ethereal Glom many times, and I remember a big deal about the guards on Celestia and Nil and they decided it wouldn't apply to such places. It's in the announce posts somewhere I think.
EDIT: Oh, that post was just made. *insert foot in mouth* Might only be ok to do against Magnagorans then.
Unknown2005-05-24 01:43:34
That would cause all kinds of bad, if the bolded bit was coded. I guess it depends on how tou define area, but still, If I were standing in the area coded as the Razines, why shouldn't I be able to attack someone who is standing in the next set of mountains which connects directly (Northern mountains? I can't remember).
Unknown2005-05-24 01:44:19
Planes are open PK as far as I know. Always have been and hopefully will continue to be.
Nyla2005-05-24 01:45:27
But you arent supposed to beckon into guards and such. Even if it is off plane
Unknown2005-05-24 01:47:17
You aren't? I didn't know about that. Not that I've done it, but meh. I always thought planes were total FFA.
Estarra2005-05-24 01:47:34
Well, we ended up having a rather long debate among the admins regarding this issue. Some feel that if you are in an adjacent location next to enemy territory, you should get whatever comes to you, while others feel that a bright line separating what you can and cannot do is the only way to deal with issues that arise. I was an advocate of simply stopping all hostilities between adjacent territories to force people to either go in and fight or stay out, but other admins felt that was too stringent. Anyway, we're open to discussion. The clearer and simpler the solution, the better.
Unknown2005-05-24 01:51:51
I kind of think it would be more hassle than it is worth to fiddle around with rules regarding when you can and can't bring someone into the borders to be attacked. If there is a way to simply stop attacks going from outside a city/commune to within it's borders, I'm up for that, but I'd hate to see all attacks that cross rooms suffer for it (this coming from someone that deson't have cross-rooms attacks...I don't think I do *scratches head*)
Unknown2005-05-24 01:52:24
QUOTE(Quidgyboo @ May 23 2005, 06:43 PM)
That would cause all kinds of bad, if the bolded bit was coded. I guess it depends on how tou define area, but still, If I were standing in the area coded as the Razines, why shouldn't I be able to attack someone who is standing in the next set of mountains which connects directly (Northern mountains? I can't remember).
123340
Maybe just into areas that are enemy territory?
Estarra2005-05-24 01:57:21
QUOTE(Visaeris Maeloch @ May 23 2005, 06:52 PM)
Maybe just into areas that are enemy territory?
123348
Just out of curiosity, what would be your logic for wanting this done? The immediate answer is simply, "Well, you could just move one room away or move out and attack them without any consequence."
Unknown2005-05-24 02:02:42
QUOTE(Estarra @ May 23 2005, 06:57 PM)
Just out of curiosity, what would be your logic for wanting this done? The immediate answer is simply, "Well, you could just move one room away or move out and attack them without any consequence."
123354
Well, the only time a force inside won't try and assault back across the border is if they are incapable.
For example, in the Serenwilde/Glom thing, we'd love to go out and crush 'em, but they have a numerically superior force, and we have almost no skilled fighters. Result is that the Hartstone siegers fire shots in at us. We can attack back, except Blacktalon are an endangered species.
It's simple, completely objective, and it balances the scales. I cannot think of any instance in which you would have a valid reason to fire shots into an area that the defenders couldn't come out and get you. That's why this is the best solution to the entire matter. It unquestionably balances things.
Shiri2005-05-24 02:04:41
They can SHIELD. Or fire OUT. Man, if numbers are a valid reason, we better nerf those Magnagoran skills some more.
Unknown2005-05-24 02:11:47
QUOTE(Shiri @ May 23 2005, 07:04 PM)
They can SHIELD. Or fire OUT. Man, if numbers are a valid reason, we better nerf those Magnagoran skills some more.
123360
That is correct. However the moment you do anything that lowers your shield, you instantly get about 500 straight up damage plus 800 bleeding. How wonderful is that?
In terms of firing out.. If the defenders are able to do something like that, they'd probably just go out, break the demesne, and the defenders can go turn back the attackers. The only time it becomes an issue is if there's a huge imbalance.
Unknown2005-05-24 02:12:09
Just move away from the borders, go into the trees, burrow below, shield, etc.
The more I think about it, the less I want this kind of thing stopped. You don't see one army waiting patiently for another to come outside and play. If they want to attack they attack.
Think of your guards as police and your players as the army. The police have no jurisdiction to leave the borders of your area but the army is under no such control. It is also not 'legal' to deport or extradite someone without their government's consent, so I can use that analogy as to why you shouldn't be able to barge someone into your border police.
Unknown2005-05-24 02:16:16
QUOTE(Quidgyboo @ May 23 2005, 07:12 PM)
Just move away from the borders, go into the trees, burrow below, shield, etc.
The more I think about it, the less I want this kind of thing stopped. You don't see one army waiting patiently for another to come outside and play. If they want to attack they attack.
Think of your guards as police and your players as the army. The police have no jurisdiction to leave the borders of your area but the army is under no such control. It is also not 'legal' to deport or extradite someone without their government's consent, so I can use that analogy as to why you shouldn't be able to barge someone into your border police.
123369
The matter of barging is a nonissue. Us not being able to barge in is no biggy as long as they can't barge us out.
It's just the attacking people in another area that is. And if we back off, what we end up doing is having the attacking forces move in, killing shadowbound fae/daughters of night, and then fading back.
The only way in or out is through that channel, and if they can just butcher someone moving through it, that strikes me as imbalanced.
Shiri2005-05-24 02:18:01
QUOTE(Visaeris Maeloch @ May 24 2005, 03:16 AM)
The issue of barging is a nonissue. It's just the attacking people in another area that is. And if we back off, what we end up doing is having the attacking forces move in, killing shadowbound fae/daughters of night, and then fading back.
The only way in or out is through that channel, and if they can just butcher someone moving through it, that strikes me as imbalanced.
123373
Not once have we used that to kill shadowbound Fae/Daughters of Night. This will ALSO be fixed with totems and guards. (And frickin' demesnes.) Besides, shielding still works there...?
Unknown2005-05-24 02:21:33
QUOTE(Shiri @ May 23 2005, 07:18 PM)
Not once have we used that to kill shadowbound Fae/Daughters of Night. This will ALSO be fixed with totems and guards. (And frickin' demesnes.) Besides, shielding still works there...?
123375
Perhaps you misread.. I meant if we don't block the entrance there(the only place where it there's one place in where the defenders can concentrate their efforts), then we have to split our forces. Then we'd end up defending further back, and since the fae/champions wander, you guys could do incursions to wipe out some just beyond our defense.
As for shielding, you can always have someone run in and nullify, and then a cadre of cudgels hits them.
The issue may be solved in time with totems/guards, but the simplest solution is just to stop it entirely.
To turn the question around, is there a reason NOT to block cross-boundary attacks like that?
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