Standing outside enemy territory

by Unknown

Back to Common Grounds.

Unknown2005-05-24 02:22:14
QUOTE(Visaeris Maeloch @ May 24 2005, 01:16 PM)
The matter of barging is a nonissue. Us not being able to barge in is no biggy as long as they can't barge us out.

It's just the attacking people in another area that is. And if we back off, what we end up doing is having the attacking forces move in, killing shadowbound fae/daughters of night, and then fading back.

The only way in or out is through that channel, and if they can just butcher someone moving through it, that strikes me as imbalanced.
123373



Something we've all dealt with and I think we all should have to deal with. Can't have game mechanics handing everything to us on a platter.

But yes, totem and guards = good idea. Save up those shadows!
Unknown2005-05-24 02:22:58
QUOTE(Quidgyboo @ May 23 2005, 07:22 PM)
Something we've all dealt with and I think we all should have to deal with.
123377



That is completely and utterly untrue. cool.gif No organisation besides Glom has been sieged and unable to muster a defence to protect their assets. I don't have a problem with the fact that we are being blockaded, if you will. But they shouldn't be able to take potshots at us in our territory.
Unknown2005-05-24 02:26:09
QUOTE(Visaeris Maeloch @ May 24 2005, 01:22 PM)
That is completely and utterly untrue.  cool.gif  No organisation besides Glom has been  sieged and unable to muster a defence to protect their assets. I don't have a problem with the fact that we are being blockaded, if you will. But they shouldn't be able to take potshots at us in our territory.
123380




huh.gif Celest and Serenwilde have both been sieged and been too crappy to defend themselves. It still happens sometimes for friggs sake.
Unknown2005-05-24 02:28:31
QUOTE(Quidgyboo @ May 23 2005, 07:26 PM)
huh.gif Celest and Serenwilde have both been sieged and been too crappy to defend themselves. It still happens sometimes for friggs sake.
123383



I never saw that happen before I left, and I've yet to see it happen since I got back.. Going into a city/commune to raid is one thing, sitting outside and taking potshots is another. The former is what happens, the latter, not so much.
Shiri2005-05-24 02:28:42
Happened...Wednesday? Might've been Thursday. happy.gif
Unknown2005-05-24 02:32:58
QUOTE(Visaeris Maeloch @ May 24 2005, 01:28 PM)
I never saw that happen before I left, and I've yet to see it happen since I got back.. Going into a city/commune to raid is one thing, sitting outside and taking potshots is another. The former is what happens, the latter, not so much.
123385



The later has happened before and still happens.

These troubles -should- exist for a new organisation, it should be something you should have to deal with using the same mechanics as everyone else.
Elryn2005-05-24 02:33:50
QUOTE(Visaeris Maeloch @ May 24 2005, 12:21 PM)
To turn the question around, is there a reason NOT to block cross-boundary attacks like that?
123376


I am not terribly concerned either way, but you must remember the reasons of why you would use a distance attack in the first place. Primarily, I imagine, to avoid area attacks such as summoning, or Moon/Night rages off the top of my head. Preventing this would be a disadvantage - not severe, but a disadvantage nonetheless.

Also, one of the best uses for distance attacks is to discourage people sitting directly outside a defended area. Generally the defenders have more of an advantage inside their defended area than the raiders do outside, so with reasonable tactics one can drive off those who lurk on your borders.
Unknown2005-05-24 02:35:35
QUOTE(Quidgyboo @ May 23 2005, 07:32 PM)
The later has happened before and still happens.

These troubles -should- exist for a new organisation, it should be something you should have to deal with using the same mechanics as everyone else.
123387



If there have been groups of a dozen or so people sitting outside the Seren mauling anyone who comes by, I certainly haven't heard of it. "Oh well, I'm not omnipotent, and that's a tangential matter anyways."

As far as new organisations, it's easy to say that since.. well.. There are no other new organisations, nor have there ever been. doh.gif

QUOTE(Elryn @ May 23 2005, 07:33 PM)
I am not terribly concerned either way, but you must remember the reasons of why you would use a distance attack in the first place.  Primarily, I imagine, to avoid area attacks such as summoning, or Moon/Night rages off the top of my head.  Preventing this would be a disadvantage - not severe, but a disadvantage nonetheless.

Also, one of the best uses for distance attacks is to discourage people sitting directly outside a defended area. Generally the defenders have more of an advantage inside their defended area than the raiders do outside, so with reasonable tactics one can drive off those who lurk on your borders.
123388



In theory, it is a good way to discourge people from sitting outside. In practice, it works for everyone else tongue.gif That said, the reason I support the idea Estarra mentioned is not because of our numerical inferiority. I just don't think that anyone should be able to sit outside an area and attack people inside as they're going about their business.
Shiri2005-05-24 02:37:39
QUOTE(Visaeris Maeloch @ May 24 2005, 03:35 AM)
If there have been groups of a dozen or so people sitting outside the Seren mauling anyone who comes by, I certainly haven't heard of it.

As far as new organisations, it's easy to say that since.. well.. There are no other new organisations, nor have there ever been.  doh.gif
123390


That's because you're not us, so you don't know when it happens. IT HAS. I've BEEN there.
Unknown2005-05-24 02:39:13
QUOTE(Shiri @ May 23 2005, 07:37 PM)
That's because you're not us, so you don't know when it happens. IT HAS. I've BEEN there.
123391



Whoops, edited out my addition. I meant to add a sentence on the end of that saying "Oh well, I'm not omnipotent, and that's a tangential matter anyways.". Corrected.
Sylphas2005-05-24 02:43:57
At this point, I'd love to see enemy/ally territory be nothing more but a political boundary, and a boundary for guards. As it is, it's becoming more and more that there's walls between areas, and you can completely ditch combat by hopping over one and waiting.
Elryn2005-05-24 02:46:54
QUOTE(Visaeris Maeloch @ May 24 2005, 12:35 PM)
As far as new organisations, it's easy to say that since.. well.. There are no other new organisations, nor have there ever been.  doh.gif
In theory, it is a good way to discourge people from sitting outside. In practice, it works for everyone else tongue.gif That said, the reason I support the idea Estarra mentioned is not because of our numerical inferiority. I just don't think that anyone should be able to sit outside an area and attack people inside as they're going about their business.
123390


Most distant attacks work only in adjacent rooms, apart from damage attacks that work in line of sight. I really don't think it is that difficult to go about your business without sidling up to the border of your domain if you aren't prepared to defend it.

As for it working for everyone else... try a new tactic then?
Unknown2005-05-24 02:52:52
QUOTE(Elryn @ May 23 2005, 07:46 PM)
Most distant attacks work only in adjacent rooms, apart from damage attacks that work in line of sight.  I really don't think it is that difficult to go about your business without sidling up to the border of your domain if you aren't prepared to defend it.
123401



The ones that work on line of sight are the ones in question.

The reason it works for everyone else is they've got at least semi-similar numbers and can mount a ranged defence. Poor Blacktalon sad.gif
Elryn2005-05-24 02:55:20
Throughout this conflict today, you have been facing off against the mighty forces of TWO hartstoners. Often just one.

Come on.
Xenthos2005-05-24 02:55:46
So join the Blacktalon! tongue.gif
Unknown2005-05-24 02:57:53
QUOTE(Elryn @ May 23 2005, 07:55 PM)
Throughout this conflict today, you have been facing off against the mighty forces of TWO hartstoners.  Often just one.

Come on.
123408



Today? Maybe. But I've gotten up to 5 cudgel blasts in the space of ~3 seconds. Besides, I'm not worried about me, just my communemates (the vast majority of which are lower level and have way less tankability)
Elryn2005-05-24 03:03:15
As I said, is it that hard to tell novices to avoid the borders of your defended area during times of war if they are unwilling to defend it?

Organize your commune, get defensive strategies in place, and don't allow attackers to sit outside the borders of your forest.

Meh, I don't really feel strongly about it... but it just seems like an unnecessary downgrade to our defences.
Unknown2005-05-24 03:48:44
QUOTE(Visaeris Maeloch @ May 24 2005, 01:35 PM)
If there have been groups of a dozen or so people sitting outside the Seren mauling anyone who comes by, I certainly haven't heard of it. "Oh well, I'm not omnipotent, and that's a tangential matter anyways."

As far as new organisations, it's easy to say that since.. well.. There are no other new organisations, nor have there ever been.  doh.gif
In theory, it is a good way to discourge people from sitting outside. In practice, it works for everyone else tongue.gif That said, the reason I support the idea Estarra mentioned is not because of our numerical inferiority. I just don't think that anyone should be able to sit outside an area and attack people inside as they're going about their business.
123390



I actually have an alt in Glomdoring and I quite like him, have purchased credits, etc, so I do see it from a Glomdoring point of view also.

I just think from a realism perspective I would hate to see new organisations be breast-fed overly much and I don't see the need for the changes you're suggesting.
Unknown2005-05-24 06:21:05
I'm on the side of the "don't increase the area border bright line" people.
I understand that the purpose of the guards is to act as defense and not offense, and I'm perfectly okay with that. However, it doesn't seem like that should apply to the players on either side of an area border.

And I still think that attacking from outside a border should be perfectly acceptable, despite being in Glomdoring and the Blacktalon. On the other hand, this is the first I heard about any such problems. Maybe we just need to let the commune know slightly more about what needs defending.

Meh, I vote don't change it, please.
Estarra2005-05-24 06:33:07
Someone suggested (okay it was Roark) having a guard type that has a ranged attack (one room away), that you could keep at your borders to attack those enemies foolish enough to come up next to the border. To kill the guard, you'd of course have to enter that guard's room. Something to think about.

bop.gif