Yuniko is not, and has not been a Necromancer since glomdoring came out. Nor is she supposed to post skills on the forums, but, who cares about forum rules?

Considering she hardly even gets into depth on the skills, such as restrictions, how long things last, powercosts, comparing them to other guardian skills, and underestimating how many people DO have lessons (since not everyone 'organization hops'), her opinion means fairly little.

Forgot about those.

For everyone else's benefit: An analysis of how necromancy skills can be useful and Necromancers (unsurprisingly) exaggerate how bad it is. This said, it ISN'T that great of a skillset, just not as awful as people like to make out.

Actually, it's not exaggerated. A few things have made it better, but still...meh.

Oh well. At least we have tarot upgrades.

Bricriu, sorry to say but you're developing an ego on the level of Amaru. Since when does non-combatants do not have a chance to make analysis about their own skills? I believe this was one of your arguments before, just because you don't fight it doesn't mean you can't be knowledgeable about your own skillsets. If you consider her opinions mean very little, then perhaps you should take a look at your own.

I don't care if she was a combatant or not, Terenas. I do care when she is not fully explaining things (thus, only portraying half the picture so it shines in a certain light), ESPECIALLY when she no longer even has the skillset, and has not had it for some time - and even when she DID have it, it was before things got downgraded.

That is why, thus, her opinion really means little.

So you think all the Necromancers that are defending Ectoplasm are being objective? The entire arguments that all of them have put together thus far can be summed up as,

"Necromancy sucks already, don't downgrade us!"

Or do you think any of them are actually explaining everything in details unless it affected them? So how many Necromancers bugged that Lichdom was giving them grace and thus making them untouchable after liching? Or that they were able to ghost right after liching and thus never die? It took admins to fix the problems since so many people complained about how unfair it was. That wouldn't had been needed if those with the skills had bothered being objective and cared about balancing the game, rather than preserving their precious overpowered abilities. Truth in all, some of you just don't want your extremely powerful abilities downgraded because you can't see past your noses when it comes seeing from a different perspective.

I remember when I first killed Visaeris, and he liched, way back in the day.

I said wait, it gives you grace? That's a bug.

He said, quote, "It is supposed to work that way, if Lichdom didn't give you grace, it'd be worthless."

as an example, saying that cannibalize is a 'really good skill if you need a lot of health or mana' when it really is a 'let pooka users kill you almost instantly' ability, or even mentioning those sorts of drawbacks, is not an 'unbiased' look at a skillset.

With that being said, I think it needs a power cost, so that it'll be used more constructively. 1-2 power to use.

I take extreme offense to that, considering that as the first Nihilist envoy, I DID suggest downgrades in the effort to balance things.

Ectoplasm is hardly overpowered, it HAS been downgraded in the past, in fact - other abilities attack ONLY enemies, and yes, they can be roomwide as well. The fact some people need cleanse does not make it overpowered when it is used. It is no where NEAR as damaging as say, dilute was, or shieldsmash is - nor does it's use give you back eq and balance, cure all your afflictions, and leave you ready for another INSTANT attack upon a person.

It's human nature; almost everyone does it. Wisp isn't overpowered, it only works in forests...Trueheal restoring balance and equilibrium isn't overpowered, it costs 10 power...Lichdom isn't overpowered, eye sigils stop it, etc.

I would say that cannibalize has its uses in certain situations. The problem isn't that the skill doesn't have its uses, but rather it's because it is forceable. This holds true for many other abilities such as Transmute and Surge. They are both awesome in certain situations, but also are major pain in the necks if used against you. You can't just blatantly state that the majority of Necromancy's abilities suck and then turn a blind eye at your overpowered abilities.

But you also can't gloss over the limitations and risks of the skills and call it a fair assessment, which is what is being done with Y's now-erased post. I'm not saying it doesn't have uses. It does. I've used it. And surge, and transmute. However, ignoring the reality of skill interactions leaves you with a wildly skewed view, and you cannot claim to see balance or imbalance looking at a list of skills like she posted.

1-2 power maybe, but some of the downgrades I hear people pushing for without suggesting other upgrades to make necromancy not get crappier just burns me up. *grumble* Especially when you consider that enchantments aren't exactly hard to get, and neither is jewelry to have those enchantments placed upon.

That said, I'm actually going to bed so I don't fall asleep mid-final tomorrow.

So what is this huge downgrade to Ectoplasm besides it wearing off? Aeon wears off after a while, so I don't see what the major problem is, Wane wears off even faster.

Funny how you mention Dilute because the Aquamancers actually thought it was way too powerful and asked for it to be removed completely. Are you incapable of seeing both sides of arguments when it comes down to having possible adverse effects on you?


I agree, almost everyone does it, but it doesn't mean that exceptions cannot occur.

Very well, I'll concede to that point if you can provide me with a limitation and/or risk of whoring Ectoplasm 25 times in team fighting.

No, I'm more than willing to leave that job to you. Considering I actually have noticed and asked for things in Necromancy to be balanced (And last I had heard, the aqua's had asked for it to be made temporary. In any case, it got removed and they got a smashing new skill to replace it with.), but you cannot even seem to comprehend how something like Yuniko's badly made assessment of the skills is untrue, and hardly being made to portray them in a 'balanced' light.

Respectfully, Terenas, I was not defending ectoplasm as a power that shouldn't have more limitations. My only comments here are in regards to skillsets as a whole being viewed minus limits of some powers that make them a lot less cheery than Y phrased it. Since I was not arguing the point you ask me to prove in the first place, I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request.

Moreover, I will argue that if you do not conceed the point I was arguing (that skillsets as a whole cannot be viewed objectively by looking at a 'benefits only' chart) on the basis of my unwillingness or inability to prove there is a limit on ectoplasm (when there clearly isn't, and I've never said there was), I shall think of you as much less reasonable than I know you to be from Achaea.

I also think ecto could use some rebalancing, and maybe that should include a power cost. However, that does not prevent me from saying that I think Necromancy is now a very skill-poor set, which makes me sad because it is literally the reason I chose to play the character I did. And the frustration is such that I've been playing my alt instead even though I abhor being 20ish level.

Ehh..