Civil Unions

by tarquin

Back to The Real World.

tarquin2005-05-26 05:43:22
In NZ at the moment there is so much hoo haa about this new bill that was passed called the Civil Union Bill, it is a bill which allows for a alternative legal process other then marriage, that acknowledges someone alse as next of kin. It also allows for same-sex couples to get civil unions.

What do people think of it? I mean lots of people believe it is just a step closer to gay marriage, and I do kindof think that half the reason that it was created was to allow for homosexual partners to be acknowledged as being in a serious next of kin relationship.

But there is so much complaining from the Destinies Church, who are at times a little bit odd, and some other churches.

Anyhow do other people believe that the bill should stay in our system. Or do you think it is bad etc...
Shoshana2005-05-26 05:49:34
I think that marriage should be purely a religious thing, or at least not codified in law. There should be a completely separate, completely secular thing (which seems to be being called a civil union, but it really doesn't matter what it's called) which every couple, straight or otherwise, has to get in order to get all of the benefits that are associated with marriage at the moment. That way, the churches get to keep their precious marriage exactly how they want it to be, and have it not affect the lives of anyone who doesn't subscribe to that religion.
tarquin2005-05-26 05:58:42
Yeah that is why I completly support civil unions, and am kind of shifty about homosexual marriages, because of the whole religious thing. But the thing is that before christianity became into focus, people were married. So Marriage does not really have anything to do with the christian religion in particular. I mean people who are Hindu marry, people who are buddhist marry.
Unknown2005-05-26 06:23:17
eh.
I don't really support civil unions. Let people have each other as life insurance beneficiaries and such but..

Meh. Also anti-Gay marriage. I have nothing against homosexuals. I don't find it immoral or anything. It's too late to get into the details. tomorrow
Unknown2005-05-26 07:57:14
Civil Unions give the same rights to Gay Couples that straight couples now possess.

These are:
1. Ability to write self-designating material (Wills, Duo-Wills in case of two people designating one will as prime desire of combined testimonials that endow transferance of owned goods and property to chosen person/s) that is all-by law abidding. For example: The court does not give ground to any wills designating items to a gay couple. If one of them should pass away and wishes to leave all of his/her belongings to his/her husband/wife, the "deceased's relatives can take the will to a court of law" and gain "automatic grounds because the United States does not give equal holdings to the gay community (The Law of Property (Hornbook Series and Other Textbooks) by William B. Stoebuck)." In other words, the gay couple do not have the right to leave their belongings to their lovers if their relatives wish the items.

2. "Right to meet their wives/husbands and gain admittance in centers of medical health in times of emergency (American Constitutional Law (University Textbook Series) by Laurence H. Tribe)." In other words, if their wife/husband is in an accident or in any dire circumstance and must be placed in a hospital, their significant others do not have right to see them. Only relatives and heterosexual couples who are acknowledged "married by law have the right to enter the vicinity of medical health centers" (Pg. 43 under Section IX, ruling by Washington Court).

3. Right to "gain insurances and gain law-given equality through insurance companies" (Bainbridge's Corporations: Law and Economic Analysis (University Textbook Series) by Stephen M. Bainbridge). Because of this, many gay couples do not have the right to share insurances that could benefit their personal healths.

4. In every state, it is legal to be fired for being gay. This was ruled by the Supreme Court during the hearing between a Californian high school teacher who was fired for being, and I quote, "a homosexual". The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the school district that fired him.(wwwmarvel.loc.gov/homepage/lchp.html)

These are the main four rights the gay community does not have and are fighting for the past century. There are others, but these are the four most popular ones.

One thing many people seem to not understand is that the gay community does not want nor wish to be married in any religious and "holy" church or temple. "Truly, who would want to walk into a religious center who's very beliefs condemn them for simply being who they are?" to quote one of my really close gay friends. "They can keep their god, who's very views are bigotted and full of self-conflicting beliefs. All we want are the rights and the equality that straight people have. By all means, keep your god and his 'holy' views. But give us the rights we deserve as American citizens."

And I agree with him and the entire gay community. Those who are "anti-gay marriage" do not realize the rights they have as heterosexuals and the rights the gay community do not have. They only wish to be married according to the American legal system. Not to someone's god. Religion is personal. Law is not.
tarquin2005-05-26 08:54:47
I completly agree with you Marina, I was just wondering does the area where you are in have civil unions, I hear that it they are also in some European countries, and some areas of Australia
Shoshana2005-05-26 09:00:56
Australia hasn't got civil unions, but if a couple's declared to be in a "de facto" relationship they get a lot of the rights of a married one, whether they're straight or not (Except South Australia, I think it was). That includes adoption, and wills I think, but I'm not sure about hospital visitation rights. There's also protection against discrimination based on sexuality.

*snicker* I knew that project would come in handy someday...
Richter2005-05-26 13:34:57
Civil unions are fine. Marriage is a religious thing, and I'm sorry, but I don't think that a man and a man should be able to get married in the religious Christian sense. For those wishing to lead an "alternate lifestyle", heck, give 'em civil unions. At least they can financially benefit, and feel more like a couple that way, right?
Sylphas2005-05-26 16:22:56
Completely seperating legal unions and religious marriage would be an easy way to fix this. If you want legal rights, have your union legally recognized. If you want to be "married", go see your church. If you want both, get both.
Unknown2005-05-26 16:25:01
Pro civil unions, and believe 'marriage' should be 100% religious.

And there ARE religions that are not opposed to gay marriage.
Nyla2005-05-26 16:32:24
Marriage has nothing to do with religion though. I can marry people(I havent yet, but I soooooo want to), but it isnt recongnized by the state until the state marries them and gives them their license(?) So they wont receive any kind of benefits from it.
Richter2005-05-26 17:30:59
I mean traditional religious/christian marriages.
Daganev2005-05-26 19:08:21
Damn it I want to be married. Now find me a woman and fuffill my rights!
Unknown2005-05-26 19:14:30
Heh, try being here. It's all that's been on the news for months. Well that's not completely true but it's been a feature thing. One day at school there was no-one in class because they were all at the 'Destiny Church' March against Gay Marriages...
Sylphas2005-05-26 22:35:30
I really, really don't see the why people have a problem. I've yet to hear any gay rights advocates seriously push for making churches marry them. Why is what the state does any business of religion, when it doesn't affect them in the least? If gay people get civil unions, or even get married by their church, it doesn't hurt you in any way.
Singollo2005-05-26 23:18:12
Marriage as a religious item is simply null and void in the general argument. When states offer the same guarantees and rights to civil unions, then you can claim marriages are religious, until then marriages are de facto law.
Richter2005-05-26 23:32:34
What's this "destiny church"? Sounds like a load of crap.
Unknown2005-05-27 00:26:37
Churches don't matter any more, we don't want - as Marina said - to be married in a Christian sense.

My religion would marry me right now if I wanted it, but it would not come with the same legal rights as the next guy just because he sticks his bits and pieces in different places. That's discrimination, plain and simple.

Llexyn2005-05-27 04:20:08
QUOTE(Marina_Whytetower @ May 26 2005, 02:57 AM)
Civil Unions give the same rights to Gay Couples that straight couples now possess.

These are:
1. Ability to write self-designating material (Wills, Duo-Wills in case of two people designating one will as prime desire of combined testimonials that endow transferance of owned goods and property to chosen person/s) that is all-by law abidding.  For example: The court does not give ground to any wills designating items to a gay couple.  If one of them should pass away and wishes to leave all of his/her belongings to his/her husband/wife, the "deceased's relatives can take the will to a court of law" and gain "automatic grounds because the United States does not give equal holdings to the gay community (The Law of Property (Hornbook Series and Other Textbooks) by William B. Stoebuck)."  In other words, the gay couple do not have the right to leave their belongings to their lovers if their relatives wish the items.

2. "Right to meet their wives/husbands and gain admittance in centers of medical health in times of emergency (American Constitutional Law (University Textbook Series) by Laurence H. Tribe)."  In other words, if their wife/husband is in an accident or in any dire circumstance and must be placed in a hospital, their significant others do not have right to see them.  Only relatives and heterosexual couples who are acknowledged "married by law have the right to enter the vicinity of medical health centers" (Pg. 43 under Section IX, ruling by Washington Court).

3. Right to "gain insurances and gain law-given equality through insurance companies" (Bainbridge's Corporations: Law and Economic Analysis (University Textbook Series) by Stephen M. Bainbridge).  Because of this, many gay couples do not have the right to share insurances that could benefit their personal healths.

4. In every state, it is legal to be fired for being gay.  This was ruled by the Supreme Court during the hearing between a Californian high school teacher who was fired for being, and I quote, "a homosexual".  The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the school district that fired him.(wwwmarvel.loc.gov/homepage/lchp.html)

These are the main four rights the gay community does not have and are fighting for the past century.  There are others, but these are the four most popular ones.

One thing many people seem to not understand is that the gay community does not want nor wish to be married in any religious and "holy" church or temple.  "Truly, who would want to walk into a religious center who's very beliefs condemn them for simply being who they are?" to quote one of my really close gay friends.  "They can keep their god, who's very views are bigotted and full of self-conflicting beliefs.  All we want are the rights and the equality that straight people have.  By all means, keep your god and his 'holy' views.  But give us the rights we deserve as American citizens."

And I agree with him and the entire gay community.  Those who are "anti-gay marriage" do not realize the rights they have as heterosexuals and the rights the gay community do not have.  They only wish to be married according to the American legal system.  Not to someone's god.  Religion is personal.  Law is not.
124770




AMEN.

I'll say it again. AMEN.

You just placed yourself up there on my "WUBS list" very high. smile.gif
tarquin2005-05-27 10:12:03
QUOTE(Jasbar @ May 27 2005, 07:14 AM)
Heh, try being here. It's all that's been on the news for months. Well that's not completely true but it's been a feature thing. One day at school there was no-one in class because they were all at the 'Destiny Church' March against Gay Marriages...
125041


Gosh what school do you go to, only about 10 people went to it where I am, and they are all really scary christians who evil you scarylike if you wear any kind of revealing clothing, or say something that has AnY hint of sex in it.

QUOTE(Richter @ May 27 2005, 11:32 AM)
What's this "destiny church"?  Sounds like a load of crap.
125256


They are the funniest church ever, they are umm pentacostals I think, and they believe in very traditional things, yet they are such a joke. The leader Brian Tamaki, pretty much demands something like 15% of all his followers income, and they have all this really nice equipment and everything. Brian has like a multi million dollar household, and he and his family all wear really expensive clothing. So pretty much Destiny's Church is a franchise, well in my eyes anyhow. He is converting many Pacific Islanders, and Maori people with Black Power, which is all cool and all because it is giving them a religion and such, yet he is just sending out quite twisted messages, and curving lots of different Christian ideas to suit himself. (If you can't tell, I don't really like Destiny's Church)

I am all for Marriage being open to everyone, I think that if someday I want to marry someone of the same sex as myself, I should damn well be able to. I think that if a certain church is against samesex marriages, they personnaly should be able to stop them marrying in their church, other churches that are in support of samesex marriages should be able to marry same-sex couples in their churches. I believe that because of globalisation, and the fact that a country like NZ, is becoming quite multicultural, and bringing in lots of different religions aswell, a certain religion should not be able to be personally involved with politics, and impose their ideas on a whole country.