They do have uberdoge.... *peer*

The average Violet/Kether does 700 - 800 damage to me.

I Sap and regain about 500 health (Again, average).

Plus, Sap costs me tons of Willpower.

Plus, while not many people have Violet/Kether, Burst is the second skill in Dreamweaving, so even a novice can come fight - Admittedly a single novice isn't likely to do much, but if you get a couple of them going, they'll quickly, and easily outdamage any other dreamweaver.

Up on Ethereal, me and Elryn were dancing around for a long time, Dreamweaving, sometimes he'd retreat, sometimes I would. If I ever tried to follow him back to his body, Tuek would hand my ass to me.

In fact, I've only ever managed to kill one person with Dreamweaving - Gregori. Who I hit with Void, Deepsleep, and then managed to Nightmare until he was down. And that still took about six or seven hits. Against a Faeling.

I mean, this post is almost as logical as Visaeris whining about ranged attacks. How about, "Just don't sleep/stand around/hold important meetings where you're readily affected by such things"?

EDIT: On a side note, I think Gregori was AFK, or lagged to beat all hell, as well. Either that, or just stupidly tired before I used Deepsleep on him, because he didn't react at all. In fact, I would've stopped attacking him, if I'd realized it -before- he died. I was entirely too busy worrying that he was gonna get up and call Tuek or something before I managed to do anything, and I'd just have wasted 3 Power, and about 2500 Willpower.

Dreamweaving is the death of those AFK. It's that simple. It won't kill you unless you are AFK. You also shouldn't sleep in public areas. But if you are there, even if you are asleep, you aren't likely to die, more likely to have all your newsboards read.

And to those who don't know. Sap does not kill you. It will bring you to 1 health, but not kill you. To actually kill someone, the dreamweaver must get them asleep and nightmare them to death.

*Cough* It also won't kill you if you have 15 lessons in Discipline, and two triggers - one to sip mana when you're low, and one to use Insomnia when it gets stripped.

And on a side note...nerf Insomnia! Make it use Equilibrium or something! Even half a second or a second. Just -something-. That way when I'm sitting there trying to put someone to sleep, I at least feel like I've -done- something.

Actually you could whore drowse long enough.

I could. But it takes about 25 before people -start- falling asleep once in a while, then several more besides to make them constantly passing out.

And by that time, they tend to call their Kether/Violet buddies. Not always, but tend to.

Still, half a loaf and all.

EDIT: Oh wait, we're talking if they're AFK. Right, even I can kill someone who's AFK. Sometimes. Ignore me.

Shhh! Stop giving away our strategies!

Edit: I don't think insomnia is a problem, its kafe. Which I'm fairly sure we cannot strip.

So yes, have kafe and a trigger to wake up and you're immune to a dreamweaver death.

Now I'm giving away strategies.

First of all, the main purpose of dreamweaving is not combat. The announce post when it came out said so.

Second of all, how good or bad dreamweaving is really isn't the issue.

The issue here is Violet and Malkuth. Its much easier for a dreamweaver to avoid a person with Violet than it is a person being attacked with dreamweaving to avoid the dreamweaver.

So as everyone was saying, if you think violet is too strong just leave the room :roll:

How are you supposed to spy with dreamweaving if a tae'dae can dent you with kether/violet? Seriously, you have low int and a level 3 equilibrium penalty. If you could hurt someone with it, Tuek could annhilate groups. It's a magic attack, you suck at those, live with it.

Do you seriously want dreamweaving to not work in combat AND not work for spying? Put down the pipe.

First of all, the main purpose of Dreamweaving is not combat. Or at least, that's not it's only purpose - it has some utility, rather than just offense. So, let's ignore all "offensive" skills in Dreamweaving for a moment - that is, anything that would require you to Declare your target, in neutral territory.
That said...well, it has some spying application. And you could theoretically steal with it...if you could go through doors, or pick up through eye sigils. Can maybe scare some novices with Dreamspeak...cast an Illusion to be generally annoying. Not much. Oh, also note, that unless I Declare you, I can't Link, so I can't even follow you into a room with a door, if there's a key sigil involved.
In all these cases, Kether/Violet is more than adequate to drive off the Dreamweaver in one or two hits, unless they -like- dying. Conclusion? Kether/Violet is just fine, in this situation.

Now, let's consider the martial applications.
You -can not die- from Dreamweaving, unless you are knocked unconsious. Sap may hit hard (relatively), but you'll survive it. Hell, you can even turn off autosipping, and sit there, ignoring the attack completely until they get bored and leave, then just take a nap for a minute or two to recover your health.
What's that you say? You can die if I knock you out, and I have not one, not two, but three, yes, -three- skills to do exactly that, while in Dreambody? Egads, you're right!....but wait....Slumber is easily countered by having Insomnia. Drowse takes forever to work, giving you -plenty- of time to fight back....and Deepsleep, which is a combination of Drowse and Deepsleep is -still- stopped (partially) by Insomnia, -and- it takes several hits (Which draw 3 Power each) to get you tired enough to fall asleep on your own! So, you -still- have lots of time to fight back.
Now, let's assume our lucky Dreamweaver manages to knock you out cold. Wake up. If you're not completely retarded, you ate Kafe as soon as you started getting harassed by a Dreamweaver anyways, so...just wake up.
Logical conclusion? Kether/Violet -is- still enough to drive them off. Or, not fighting back -at all-, because eventually they -have- to go home, due to a loss of Willpower.

"But, what about the afflictions! The affflictions!" Well, that's a good question. The -only- advantage to them is that you don't get an initial affliction message. Because even as a Mugwump, they come too slow to be any use at all. In fact, except as an initial "sneak attack" to slow someone down on their counter strike against you, the afflictions are completely useless, because it takes so long to do them, that you get zero use out of them. Void is the only one even remotely useful, and even then, it doesn't take long to figure out you've got Stupidity, and cure it (Unless you're just -really- unlucky with the curing, but I've never taken more than a couple seconds to fix that particular problem).

Not to mention that -most- of the afflictions that you can give someone while dreamweaving requires them to be unconsious (Which, if they were unconsious long enough to make them worth while, you wouldn't really need to be afflicting them further, now would you?), -and- they come from motes - which take 1 Power, and 200 Willpower to make. Each. Ever wonder why every month, Deathsense scrolls past with "Ixchilgal has been slain by the might of Ixchilgal"? That's because I've just spent 15k+ Willpower creating 50 motes, and don't want to meditate for six hours to recover it.


Secondly...how good or bad Dreamweaving is -is- the issue. That's -exactly- the issue, because that's -exactly- what you're bitching about. Kether/Violet just happens to be the means you're attempting to use to drive off the Dreamweavers who're annoying you. Dreamweaving has enough inherent drawbacks, and lack of offensive capability that Kether/Violet is plenty powerful enough to drive away all but the most determined (Or stupid) of Dreamweavers.
Just because -you- don't have enough Intelligence (The character, not the player) to inflict any serious harm to a Dreamweaver doesn't mean the skill needs an upgrade. Become a Geomancer, get a Staff, and tell me if you do much damage with that. What's that you say? You're not a magicall adept race, your magical attacks can't be expected to be that powerful? Egads, that's brilliant! Why didn't you think of that when you bitched that Kether/Violet needs an upgrade?


Oh, and though I'm loath to give away information I don't need to, there's a way around a Dreamweaver being linked to you, if you simply must know - transverse planes, which just about everyone can do at their nexus. Just hop up to Ethereal, or Elemental, or Cosmic for a second. Go back and walk off. Whatever, it doesn't matter.
Or, if you have the ability, Burrow.


It's not like this is a skillset that's difficult to counter. You just have to find out the limitations, and then act on those. Kinda like any other skill in the game.

I don't see how any of those counters are enhanced by Violet/Keter, or what advantage violet/keter gives the person who owns the skill.

Daganev, it's a very useful skill, IF YOU CAN DO DAMAGE WITH IT. Plenty of people can, Tae'dae can't.

I transcended combat, Daganev.

How useful do you think ShieldRiposte is to me?

ummm why isn't shield reposte usefull for you? stick some venom on your shield and you've got a great couter attack... *peer*

The only people who need both hands full are warriors.


Plus trans combat gives you the added bonus of better dodging.

Let me stun you some day, and I'll show you how long it lasts for. A venom is easily cured.

It works, but its not really going to be much use to me. An Igasho might be a different story.

Just like Violet isn't much use for you. But give it to a Mugwump, and there's no way I'm sticking around.

Oh, you mean shieldstun not shieldreposte? Shieldreposte stops an atttack and hurts your attacker.

As a tae'dae I find shieldstun useless except in group combat. Everyone finds that skill useless... however, its not the only skill available to counter warriors.

Violet/keter is.

First of all, Violet/Kether is -not- the only way to counter Dreamweaving. In fact, I just had a -big huge post- about how to counter Dreamweaving. In fact, if you want to render the skill completely worthless, just point all your novices to that post, and the skill is gone, dead in the water.


Violet/Kether existed before Dreamweaving. Ergo, it was useful -before- Dreamweaving. It's not used -soley- against them, it counters a number of skills - Nature, Statue, Ghost (Whatever it's actually called, sorry, I'm not a Necromancer), and Dreamweaving.

A Tae'Dae cannot be expected to do a lot of damage with a magically based attack.
Just as Ixchilgal, as a Mugwump, cannot be expected to become a pimped out Ur'Guard bonecrusher. He lacks the Strength, and Constitution.

You see how this works? If you have stats that compliment the skill you're tryig to use, then it works wonderfully. Tuek, for example, can Violet me for about 1k damage. That's -lots-, about twice what I can recover with Sap.

Violet/Kether is dangerous. Don't forget, that a Dreamweaver cannot sip health, or eat sparkleberry, or otherwise recover their health in any way other than passive regeneration they have access to...and Sap. That's it.

Nor can they call for help, if they get in trouble (Such as being Carcered into a room, or locked behind a closed door). And fighting takes -tons- of Willpower for them.

Tell you what, make Insomnia take Equilibrium. One, maybe even two seconds, it won't matter...make Insomina take Equilibrium, and I'll support Kether/Violet doing more damage. Trust me, in less than a day, you'll be right back here, bemoaning the change, and things should go back to how they were.

Stop complaining that your racial choice finally came back to bite you in the ass. Really, you picked Tae'Dae, you -knew- the penalties - you suffer more from magical attacks, your own magical attacks are weak, and you're slower than all hell. Consequently, you should -expect- that magely folks can mess with you. And if you didn't know the penalties of being a Tae'Dae...well, that would suggest you were new when you picked the race. Which, in turn, suggests you didn't reincarnate into it, which means you have the freebie reincarnation left. Go pick a race that's less prone to being smote by magic, and more capable of inflicting magical harm themselves.

I'm told Dracnari is good.

since when can you envenom shields...

on another note ghosting when 3 people who can violet are present usually means death for me at the moment even at full health which is at 6k. Now i need to trans magic just so i can utilize my ghosting abilities again.

Yes as a tae'dae I chose to be a warrior and not a druid.

Saying that I chose a race and its catching up to me, over a skillset that in no other way is limited by the racial intellegence is quite odd.

And Violet/Kether is the only skill that counters dreamweaving. All those counters you listed have nothing to do with what skills a person has.

I don't think you're listening to Ixchilgal, Daganev.

Violet/Kether is NOT the only way to counter Dreamweaving. He just listed a lot of different counters.

What you really mean is, its the only way to ATTACK dreamweavers. And even that isn't completely true.