Primarily seafood diet for me, actually, though I don't turn up my nose at most meats, or the ocassional sweet.

I've always been happy with Moondancer.

As far as everyone's voice getting heard and collaborating, I thought that we were doing reasonably well in that with the Shanthine Pride. Everyone was and still is free to bring their own ideas to the table for discussion, and I'm certain that Exarius asked for input often. With regard to cultural traditions and rites, I feel that the important thing about the pride is that anything we've tried to set up applies only to our pride rather than the Aslaran community as a whole.
To touch on the biology thing, I firmly believe that feline as I am, a cat I am not. I see no need to turn in circles before I lie down to flatten the grass, because I'm much happier sleeping in a bed. I don't need an estrus cycle, because I relish having the ability to choose when and with whom I reproduce. I certainly hope none of the male Aslarans out there are thinking about spraying urine all over the place to mark their territory, because I really don't want to think about that. All these things have evolved to serve specific purposes in the wild, but I can't see justification in them to a civilised race, particularly as we now can be found in cities and communes all over the basin. I'm fine if someone wants to play them as a cultural tradition, but I don't want to get locked into doing it as a feature of our biology.

An Aslaran female marked a whole bunch of folk, Xen included, a few "years" back. Yay for scrub.

Your statement leads me to assume that she "marked" folks by spraying them with urine. If so, you have proven that this is a cutural tradition rather than a biologically driven act.

Among cats -- the four legged kind -- males mark territory by spraying. Females mark territory by rubbing the gland on their chin against things.

Therefore, if a female Aslaran is marking territory by spraying, it would follow that this is the tradition of her home tribe rather than a biological urge.

--Rhosyn

ROTFLMAO

Thank you. I really needed that.

I've been spending so much time lately being steamed about your heavy-handed ways in trying to dictate to all Aslaran what "good" Aslaran role-playing is that I desperately needed a laugh like that.

The fact that you would post something like that with a straight face is the beyond hilarious.

Wow. I never realized you were a stand-up comedian.

I look forward to your next attempt at humor.

Really.

--Rhosyn

Hmm. Love how you three do that.

Gwylifar says "a disagreement".

You and your .. .harem I believe it is? ... turn around and do your best to make him look bad.



Nice form you three. Love the muckracking *roll*

Exarius, this is not the place to air dirty laundry, and let me say this much: if you want to insist on doing so, you will come off far the worse for it than will I. You have insulated yourself from what is going on around you and what people think of you and your efforts. I would say you have a rude awakening coming when you learn how many people are frustrated or disgusted with so much of it, if I hadn't been made confident in your ability to avoid awakenings.

Even so, there are certainly those who wish to pursue the avenue you wish to pursue, and are happy to suborn their own input to the stifling hand of your narrow vision. And while I cannot respect what you're doing or how you're doing it, I can certainly respect your right to do it, and their right to be part of it, and thus I can wish you the best in doing it, and eschew opportunities to tear it down. There is room enough in the world for both and more besides.

You may think as ill of us as you wish, and of what we're doing, but I hope you will find somewhere within you the grace to respect our right to do it, and leave us to it. If you can do naught but tear down what others try to do, you will find yourself in a bad, bad place, when you yourself get torn down, and finally reveal how little there actually ever was there behind the facade. No one will win, and you most of all.

Gywlifar needs no help from anyone to look bad. All you have to do is deal with him for any length of time.

I would like to clarify that while Exarius and I are occasional lovers, I am not a member of his harem.

He is my patron and the leader of the Pride I have chosen to join, but I do not have a sexual comitment to him beyond the occasional play date.

Just want to make sure the facts are out there.

While we are talking facts, the definition of muckraking is "to search out and expose publicly real or apparent misconduct of prominent individuals." Notice the _real_ part. I proudly agree that I have done that.

--Rhosyn

* I don't see how responding to the post you used to start this discussion is Exarius chosing the place to air anything.

* No one stifles me or forces me to conform to any vision. The whole situation that led to you getting kicked out of the Pride was _your_ insistence that you could dictate to _all_ female Aslaran how they could play the most intimate aspects of their lives. When you were called on it you issued an "aplogy" that was an accusation that all who didn't agree with you had been corrumpted by civilization and had forgotten what it was to be Aslaran.

Who is issuing a "narrow vision" and demanding that others follow it here?

Your stand-up rountine is getting a little less funny, but I can see that you are still trying.

--Rhosyn

Calling such things "a disagreement" is a classic example of someone wishing to downplay his own culpability in a rift that got ugly.

You could just as well say that Nazi Germany and Poland had a "disagreement" in WWII. This is not in any way to equate either party in this situation with either Germany or Poland, merely to point out that calling it a "disagreement" doesn't give Gwylifar the right to the moral high ground here.

Well, you guys play your moral high ground and your insults thing. Have fun. We'll be over here roleplaying. Nice talking to you.

Edit: As an example of Exarius's roleplaying prowess, note that he has made an in-game response in Serenwilde news to this OOC discussion, reacting to an "offer" that hasn't been made. Exarius, this is your last warning. If you want to make a fool of yourself by attacking me, you're not going to like it. Prove me wrong. Don't be ruled by your insecurity and lack of confidence and your efforts to compensate for it. Don't try to tear other people down to make up for your own failings. Don't make me tell people what's been going on in your Pride. Just keep doing what you're doing and enjoy it.

You first.

We not only can co-exist. We should co-exist. But this whole explosion happened because you wanted to dictate the most intimate sexual/reproductive biology of female aslaran, and we wouldn't stand for it, or for the sweeping psychological baggage that went with it.

Moreover, the Shanthine Pride has been around for several RL months, and yours is still only a gleam in the eye of the bardic contests, yet you're already lobbying to be seen as the person to come to for aslaran lore.

If you want peaceful prides instead of a battle to decide who's "right", it's up to you to give your pride a clear, non-contentious definition so that new players can choose where they belong without either of us resorting to slander or shoving matches.

Heck, while you're at it, if you even want to define your pride as just one branch of the family tree of aslaran, with it's own unique biology, go for it. Just make it crystal clear it's Pride Insert-Name-Here that possesses these attributes, not all aslaran.

But as would-be-leader of the junior pride, it falls on you to define yours in terms of how it differs from ours, and to frame the differences in a light that's not going to be a constant source of friction. In other words, don't act like this is a dirty political election and define your pride by saying we're bad and you're not. Define your pride by saying, "It's especially good because..."

Then and only then can we hope to keep this from devolving into a non-stop source of petty bickering.

Re-read your own post (Serenwilde 1130), Gwylifar. For the record, here's the paragraph I was responding to:

"For myself, I eagerly look forward to learning what new truths about my
people might be discovered there, for it has been long since the tribes
of the Moors went their separate ways, and much of our traditions and
customs have diverged or been lost to each tribe. If anyone should wish
to learn aught about my people's ways, if it is within my wisdom to
share it, I will be glad to do so, but know that much is still to be
learned and discovered."

...back on topic please?

I'd think the sexual activities of Aslaran have nothing to do with what was asked.

Aslaran seem pretty sweet as Warriors with the new Warrior (not Knight, for all you OMFG WE'RE NOT KNIGHTS people) changes.

Right, Exarius. Only you get to dictate anything. You are latching onto this one point because you've got one shill who was offended... and you conveniently ignore that the thing that you're making all this fuss about wasn't even made up by me, and was played out months ago and accepted both within and without the pride at the time by many people.

You also ignore that you came up with reasons against every thing like this that anyone made up, if it didn't come from you. You talked all the time about a collaborative development, but you consistently created an environment that was exactly the opposite, until a lot of the pride was going out of their way to keep things secret from you to avoid dealing with you crushing everything.

Yes, we were "dictating" -- developing -- some things that influenced aslaran biology as well as traditions and cultures. That's what you said the mission of the clan was. But when it came down to it, you only accepted ideas that supported your eternal quest for kinky MUDsex. During the whole lifespan of the clan, what exactly did you contribute? An alphabet, a couple dozen words, one rite (all of which were "dictated" just as much). Otherwise, nothing but the suppression of everything that was more feline than furry-sex-kitten-human or didn't come from you.

Yes, the Pride has been around a while, because a lot of us tried very hard to make it work, but by the end, what little it had accomplished was accomplished in spite of you. You wouldn't believe -- in fact, right now you're sitting there, not believing -- how many people have talked about how frustrated they were by you and your tyranny, and are champing at the bit to see a gathering of equals where all voices are heard. I don't have to distinguish my clan from yours, it'd do fine without that, but I will because I'd rather not undermine you and what you're doing. And I've been saying this privately and publicly, here and in the game, every time you've lashed out and tried to undercut me as a rival that threatens your ego. If you don't get over yourself, you're only bringing this down on yourself. And worse yet, on your loyalists who don't deserve to have their dirty laundry aired either.

The Pride failed because it was set to two purposes that do not align. Stroking your ego, and building a collaborative creative environment. A lot of us hoped that if your ego got stroked enough, you might get over your crippling insecurity, find the confidence of a leader, stop seeing everyone as a challenge, and let us get on with it. We talked about ways to appease you so you'd leave us some room to get the job done. We had secret conversations about it and made plans. But it was never, ever, ever enough. In the end, we got our best work, our only work, done by going around you.



As a matter of fact, while I was out in Shanthmark winning us the village, since I'm actually involved in the commune and my guild and such, and you were doing whatever it is you do with all your channels turned off and no involvement in anything around you that doesn't center on your ego, people asked me about such things already. I was asked to make that offer and people had already been directed to me, long before you even showed up, let alone before that post. As I had been on many occasions before this, particularly about the Grey Moors, since I had explored and studied them extensively, doing most of the quest there. Remember when you had to ask me about them, because you haven't been arsed to spend much time in the only aslaran culture we had in the whole game? You've not been the only one to ask me to make such posts.

So I say at the bottom of a news post that people can ask me questions and you throw a fit. Sound like the actions of a confident leader, or of an insecure, antagonistic power-mad ego-feeder? Let's let the audience decide, shall we?

Incidentally, it'll be amusingly ironic if the bardic contests provide the credits for the clan, but I'm not intending to wait for them to get it.



It's already been written and you were told the key elements you're playing disingenuous here about not knowing. Now it's your turn to find the place where "non-contentious" dwells. You aren't going to put the blame on me for the contention when you've gone ahead and thrown your tantrums publicly, both here and in-game and with the two crossing over. If the best defense you can muster for your IC/OOC break is to be disingenuous, it's time to rest your defense. Just go do what you enjoy and stop trying to put your fingers into everyone else's stuff. That's all anyone's asking of you. Do it now, before things get even uglier, because believe me, I can tell some pretty ugly things about you if you keep forcing it.

THis is to funny, I'm suddenly very glad my Aslaran has been corupted.

Back on topic, if the original is still running, my Aslaran is a Geomancer, though a newbie, and he does pretty good. ranks right up there with my Loboshigaru warrior.

SpacemanSpiff:

Glad to have justified your role-playing choices. It's always good to be confident in them.

*****
To Everyone Else:

I'm quite happy with the Moondancers. The Nature and Totem skills seem especially appropriate in my opinion. No fighting with those artificially made weapons -- as close to claw combat as I can get.

*****

Gwylifar:

::sighs::

Here we go -- one last time -- in all seriousness. Since this had all been said in game and since others have tried to say it here, I don't think this would make any difference, but here goes.

You have your own ideas about Aslaran culture. Fine. They are yours.

We have our ideas about Aslaran culture. They are ours.

You come from your home tribe from the Northern moors. We don't.

When you preface your statments on culture with "Aslaran do...", "Aslaran are...", Aslaran think..." you are shoving the culture of the Northern moors -- where no one else currently playing is from -- down the throat of every single Aslaran player in the game.

When -- in game, not here -- you justify your actions by saying an elf likes them, you are bordering on the surreal.

If you could just somehow learn to start your pronouncements with "My home tribe" instead of "Aslaran" there would never have been any trouble. Instead when you were asked to do this you went onto the Pride news board and accused everyone who didn't agree with you of being degenerate and having forgotten what it is to be Aslaran.

I have my own ideas. I do not want or need yours whole cloth. I am happy to admit that my ideas apply only to my home tribe unless and until someone else wants them.

If others want to follow your ideas -- fine and dandy. They could be from tribes that kept closer contact with yours and thus have more traditions in common, or they could choose to pick up yours because they like them, or whatever explanation you want short of it's an inherent thing that everyone must have grown up with.

If -- and I know you will think this very unlikely -- there happens to be an idea that our Pride and your Pride have in common, then it would be a very widespread tradition and perhaps one of the oldest around. But, since there are Aslaran we don't interact with regularly and there are Aslaran yet to join the game, I would personally be very hesitant even in that circumstance to declare it an "Aslaran" trait and force it on them.

There are some traits that are inherent in all Aslaran, but they were decreed by the admins (or gods, if you prefer).

Because of the offer you sent me in an in-game letter and my acceptance of said offer, I am through with this discussion. I will not even bother to look at this thread again to see your response where you accuse me of trying to dictate your role-playing.

Goodbye Gwylifar. Goodbye Gwylifar's player. It most definately has _not_ been fun.

--Rhosyn

Rhosyn, you won't see my answer, and I won't see you anymore either, so really I'm just talking to any third parties wondering about this, and thus briefly.

You can't develop a culture without someone deciding something. Otherwise all you get is the same wishy-washy nothing you started with. What is needed is a methodology that gets as many voices to be considered as possible, and finds a balance between that wishy-washy "we have no culture, everything is possible" non-answer, and so narrow a view that people can't decide for themselves how to play their own characters. There are some interesting questions in how to maintain that balance, and how to incorporate things the admins have decided but not yet revealed (why, I don't know) about racial culture, but I think I'll save that thread for another day.

Exarius never had a problem with unilateral decisions about the culture, even ones that were recorded and "made official" without showing them to most of the clan or perhaps even any of the clan. Provided they came from him. But even something that most of the clan had been playing for months, and that left room for people to vary from it, was not good enough if he didn't originate it. And given that in the whole history of the clan he originated about three total things, that particular hypocrisy could not be afforded.

The new clan should be up within a day or two, and will be completely non-hierarchical, a gathering of equals. Nothing will be recorded without having many voices and many eyes involved, save only things that were already established in canon beforehand, such as what one can learn in Shanthmark and in the camp of Ciarrus. Everything will leave room for someone to deviate from it, at least for anyone with the werewithal to stomach their own individuality.

So much letters on this thread, and text, and complicated words.