Viscanti/Merian/Elfen do not need upgrades. Faeling could do with only a level 2 balance. Drancari don't need to be downgraded, and I dunno about the rest

have to say icarus hits the nail on the head, do the changes and if people don't like it they would have a reincarnation to mull over about and could shut up and change to a new race to suit themselves

Well, I chose Viscanti in the very beginning for RP reasons and I wont be changing. I think the only specialized race that needs a downgrade are the shadowlords.

Viscanti mages/guardians could use an extra point of intelligence... as for Viscanti in general, lower the taint regen and lower the sip penalty *shrug* That's my two cents.

P.S. And give dwarfs the nerf stick.

I don't know to what extent you want to reserve specialized races for the specialization. That said, I've no concrete idea what races would be specialized anyway.

But, the way it stands now, I might suggest these things...

Concerns for Krokani: their drawbacks are amazing. Considering a certain groups attempts to use the taint and their ability to hold it back, perhaps better rather than worse handling of magic?

Concerns for Lucidian: they're not as intelligent as might be considered impressive for the bastions of logic, and resistance to blades might make them a bit more intriguing, especially since all the upgrades to blademastery will make that more attractive. In the interest of balancing the fact that one branch of warriors currently slaughters them and they're not the greatest mages either.

Concerns for Dracnari: is there... anything that's not good about being a dracnari? How about a few cold spells? Let us PUNCH ONE WITH AN ICEWALL. . Or you know, something more reasonable I guess... I think the sip penalty is really what saves the basin from Dracnari and Viscanti without any speed drawback (Viscanti with Igasho strength as warriors), so I'd only recommend that you keep these races the same if not bring them down a little.

Concerns for Orclach: I don't think these are quite as bad as so many have said. They're slower than some, but they're quite strong, heavy regen doesn't hurt either, and resistance to... the jagged lightning runes that the runed people have? I think it's more that they're not recognized as being better than they are, than that they're not at all viable. Like the examination of a regular faeling as a warrior Roark was talking about - DEFINITELY not the greatest for that con, but better than many gave a chance to. And hey, with the dex dodging changes, if they're used, you know.

Concerns for Dwarves: NERF, NERF! (this is for Tuek's benefit). But seriously, with all the benefits, their drawback list is quite short.

Loboshigaru: I think this race is amazing and can't believe more don't play them. Decent strength, acceptable int, level 2 regen on amazing con, good dex which is especially useful if the changes are used, on the smaller side for a warrior (which is great right now), and a weakness to magic with level one drawback on exp, what's not to love?

Taurians: I think the real allure for them is supposed to be the cultivation of "that ideal situation" - the rampaging herd. That being said, I think you might make their rage do more to attract more players interested in cultivating it, since it's not really doing the trick now. Also somewhat lacking is the fact that their aggregate stat total ties for lowest in the game with Lucidian, and their size is heavily towards the "disadvantageous" side (advantageous now being small of course). To help both their RP and keep the lone Taurian as what it is, I think an improved rage would be great.

Trill: They're listed as the primary builders of Hallifax and are spoken of as being very graceful, but... they're not very graceful. Their stats are only slightly rearranged from human, their special regen seems nice to me but I've heard that they don't get to see a great deal of air combat as it stands.

Concerns for Faelings: when they're specialized, they can get amazingly powerful as warriors, think that's a little out of key right now. The ability to poison quickly, do more damage over time than all other warriors, writhe almost before being webbed, and even fly and regen on their home turf is nuts.

Concerns for Tae'dae and Igasho:
they could use something because, though their straight damage is good swing to swing, damage over time does not even match a faeling warrior's. Tae'dae poison a bit less than half as much due to fewer swings of course, and Igasho only do a bit better, while writhing, curing, using equilibrium abilities and spells and such doesn't work very well for these. In addition to all of this, Tae'dae and Igasho do not dodge, and the size benefits will more frequently stop them from being saved from a friendly summon than anything else given how tackle works now. Reversing the writhe setup would be hilarious, since you would web a bug before an ogre, but I don't expect something that insane, nor do I actually recommend it seriously . I think Igasho have it a bit better right now, since their only damage drawback relates to fire (and only slightly) and a level 1 equilibrium lets them have a chance of getting away with things like using web in combat, which a Tae'dae can't do at all.

With regard to general ideas of an overhaul, I think small adjustments would still be greatly appreciated and not immediately turn over the racial identities of the majority of the basin's population. For example, I don't mind being miserably slow as a tae'dae, or being weak against magic, and I keep those things as part of my identity - which is why I mostly suggested improvements in existing themes rather than an overhaul.

Yea, Taurians definately could use something to lure people to the race....I mean, enrage is neat and all, and I love the racial concept, and I won't be changing no matter what, but. There are four, perhaps five of us all told. One paladin, one ur'Guard, and 2 serenguard that I know of. And maybe another serenguard, not sure. Horay for the rampaging herd?

There will be much gnashing of teeth after such an overhaul but I think it'll be better than not to do it. The question that rises to my mind is, to what extent are the races meant to be balanced, though? It seems now that races are spread all over the board; is the outcome going to be everyone even, or will it be two tiers, "unspecialized" and "specialized", each even within the tier? I'm guessing the latter, and that's fine with me if that's the way we're going (even though my race will never be specialized).

Now, would this be a good time to gently suggest the not-so-statistical, but more RP-ish, stuff suggested for various races, be considered here too? Such as... oh, I don't know, let me pick a race at random.... how about aslaran? Who would love to be able to GROOM and to have a chance of landing on their feet when they fall. Please?

Dwarves have low strength, low intelligence, a balance penalty. What are they good for other then taking damage? Nothing. You'll notice it's been weeks since I've been a dwarf, and every time I change dwarf, I hate it, and can't wait till the month is over to change back ASAP. I despise it, ask people who have seen me when I'm forced to go dwarf. They just suck. Since I'm not a dwarf anymore, who else does that leave? Narsrim, but he is planning on either returning to a Human, or getting a changeling cameo.

Dwarves can't be that great of a race, considering how unpopular they are.

Right, that's why it's hard to offer too many suggestions. And like I said, I don't mind that being so slow is a serious drawback for Igasho and Tae'dae, but I would like that a mountain falling on you was a little bit more respectable than three needles in the chest. This is why I'm thinking smaller improvements to preserve the theme of things would be more fun with regard to RP while improving balance. It strikes me as silly to think of an overhaul where everyone jumped races - OOC, a free reincarnation would be great if such an overhaul happened, I just hope it's not seen as quite so necessary so that IC racial identities don't go all over the place.

and Tuek: it was part of the running joke which has admittedly not been horrendously funny. I don't think their strength is so bad, one behind Dracnari, and the size is a big help (just like everything else) for their not dying, as you said.

Oh, missed the bit about what races need upgrades/downgrades.

I think upgrades should be delivered to Faelings (probably won't need much if the dex changes improve defense though), Krokani, Orclach, Furrikin, Tae'dae and Trill.

Dracnari, Viscanti, and Shadowfaelings I believe are in need of balancing downgrades.

The rest can be tweaked a little either way.

I think upgrades/downgrades should be given based on the popularity or unpopularity of races, excluding specialization races (which are in a separate category), to balance out what should be the appropiate population numbers for said race.

Nevermind, sorry Elryn. My bad.

That sounds right, as long as the statistics are based on active players and exclude specialization races like Tuek said.

In response to Olan:


And I would absolutely dread the thought of popularity being used as a measure for balance. I find that a very unfair way of expecting characters to compete in the gameworld.

I disagree on the principle that races should be all equal for combat, but some people play races for RP only and never expect to fight. As a result, before the Glomdoring opened, there were more Faelings than Loboshigaru - the latter is much better than the former.

the choosing of races is not based for a good deal of people upon statistical balance, so such upgrades will not really alter that for a world balance - a race or two can be tweaked and the population adjusted, but the largest attraction you'll get from the population will be over the same general groups within the population, which will be those who are only seeking the super race with which to accomplish (whatever task). Which I'm not complaining about, but it will be mostly just -that- section of the population that will be shifting. Story of the race, whether or not the story is appreciated, in game racial culture and representation, and established racial roleplay determine a lot of population trends too, along with OOC player tendencies to like this or that, which can also not be determined simply with racial ability upgrades and downgrades.

edit: Olan, as for the specifics I had, part of them were reasons behind why I thought a given race might be able to use a tweak here or there. Part of the Krokani problem is the intense drawbacks, and the stuff I suggested to add to the RP elements as well as reduce the statistical disadvantage was directly related to that. I tried to avoid saying "do this or this" as much as possible, hence the disclaimer on the first race there, wasn't trying to just go off on my own

Are you able to hint at what your idea for radical rebalancing would be, Estarra? It sounds like there is a single change you have planned that would affect all races.

It doesn't exactly make sense, for their to be hundreds of the infertile Krokani (Added to the fact that they are not a very fertile race, the krokani are becoming rarer and rarer to find in Lusternia) considering there is meant to be very few. Improve the statistics, and you'll see more and more, and they'll start to become common place. Then take the Lucidians and the Trill, most of their entire population is locked away in Hallifax. Why would it make sense for these races to suddenly have decent to good stats, and thusly become very common place?

I think a overhaul is quite warrented. There's just some races that are just plain useless in every area except RP, and some that are just outright better than others in every area except RP.

I agree that an overhaul is probably necessary. Hopefully it will be for the best.

Some races should always end up being naturally better then others however. Let's not end up with carbon copies of each race. Disparities make things more interesting.

Edit: Let's not end up with should I choose Identical Mage race A, Carbon copy Mage race B, or Generic Mage race C.