Because they need combat balance. Balance > Realism, as everyone keeps saying (and then contradicting with their arguments, but that's another matter.)

Luckily Furrikin are fairly numerous anyway, so I wouldn't be affected by this, but I feel for the poor Krokani et al.

I agree with you about this, and partly about the population control by keeping non-populous races lesser statistically. Keeping Trill population down by keeping their statistics low is effective, and Krokani should not be upgraded to be great, certainly. But, a race can be viable without being the best - playing a Trill right now from what I've heard is very harsh - It can be prohibitive without being untenable.

Err, for everyone saying that elfen and merians don't need upgrades, perhaps you should compare the two warrior specializations to the other two specialized races.

I say we just go ahead an ddo it sense just about everyone is for it, but how long do you think it would take for the changes to be made?

If it helps the 'popular' argument, here is the current distribution of races from the top 100 characters:


Aslaran ..... (4) 5
Dracnari ... (13) 17
Dwarf ....... (3) 7
Elfen ....... (4) 13
Faeling ..... (0) 3
Furrikin .... (0) 0
Human ....... (3) 9
Igasho ...... (1) 3
Krokani ..... (0) 0
Lobishagaru . (4) 5
Lucidian .... (0) 0
Merian ...... (3) 7
Mugwump ..... (1) 4
Orclach ..... (0) 0
Shadowfaeling (0) 3
Tae'dae ..... (1) 2
Taurian ..... (0) 0
Trill ....... (0) 1
Viscanti ... (13) 21

(Number in brackets is quantity in top 50.) Graphically:

Aslaran ..... *****
Dracnari .... *****************
Dwarf ....... *******
Elfen ....... *************
Faeling ..... ***
Furrikin ....
Human ....... *********
Igasho ...... ***
Krokani .....
Lobishagaru . *****
Lucidian ....
Merian ...... *******
Mugwump ..... ****
Orclach .....
Shadowfaeling ***
Tae'dae ..... **
Taurian .....
Trill ....... *
Viscanti .... *********************

Clearly there are a few notes about these numbers: Changelings are not taken into account (since I believe two of the three faelings are cameo characters *confirmed*), and shadowfaelings being new means that it is possible the three counted are reincarnations, and that original shadowfaeling characters haven't had a chance to improve themselves.


Edit: And I counted manually from the website stats, but it should be approximately correct.

Edit2: Oops! Forgot Taurian.

More humans than I thought, but other than that, the stats are pretty good.

You can't balance races based on XP rankings...

I agree, but the data provides two useful functions:

1) It shows which are the popular races amongst those who achieve.

2) It shows loosely* at the moment which races are most adept at achieving.

*Obviously there are other factors than just race, but this gives us an idea.

You know, what I'd really like to see (and I know I'm shooting the moon here) is to see every race vaguely practical for every archetype. Have intelligence matter for warriors as much as any other stat, with more things along the lines of surge. Have dexterity affect stancing dramatically, so us guardians bother with it. Have strength matter in mage/guardian guild skills. And charisma, why does only healing care about charisma? Why not have constitution factor into resilience venom resistance?

There's always going to be a "best way," but who's to say that warriors can be stupid and get away with it? If we're aiming for realism, stupid people die first. (On a side note, can we rename intelligence into something more magic-related? Presence? Aura? Something? Intelligence is based on the character behind the screen.) And why can magic-users be frail and get away with it? I'm harnessing untold cosmic powers and channelling them through my body. Imperial Merian should be crispy!

High Elfen -
Str: 10 Dex: 12 Con: 11 Int: 17 Cha: 15 Siz: 11
Total stats: 76
Total stats with size counted as a liability: 54

Elfen Lord -
Str: 14 Dex: 14 Con: 12 Int: 11 Cha: 15 Siz: 13
Total stats: 79
Total stats with size counted as a liability: 53

Advantages -
Regen in forest environments, Level 1
Racial language

Disadvantages -
Slower experience gain

Imperial Merian -
Str: 9 Dex: 10 Con: 10 Int: 18 Cha: 14 Siz: 12
Total stats: 73
Total stats with size counted as a liability: 49

Merian Lord -
Str: 14 Dex: 13 Con: 13 Int: 11 Cha: 14 Siz: 14
Total stats: 79
Total stats with size counted as a liability: 51

Advantages -
Regen in water, level 2
Faster equilibrium
Racial language
Can naturally breathe underwater
Can naturally swim through water efficiently

Disadvantages -
Weakness to fire, level 2
Weakness to electric, level 2
Slower experience gain

Shadowcaster Faeling -
Str: 7 Dex: 17 Con: 9 Int: 15 Cha: 13 Siz: 5
Total stats: 66
Total stats with size counted as a liability: 56

Shadowlord Faeling -
Str: 11 Dex: 17 Con: 13 Int: 10 Cha: 10 Siz: 6
Total stats: 67
Total stats with size counted as a liability: 55

Advantages -
Faster balance, level 3
Regen in tainted forest environments, level 2
Ability to fly naturally
Racial language
Sipping bonus, level 1

Disadvantages -
Slower experience gain

Master Viscanti -
Str: 11 Dex: 8 Con: 13 Int: 16 Cha: 10 Siz: 13
Total stats: 71
Total stats with size counted as a liability: 45

Brood Viscanti -
Str: 16 Dex: 10 Con: 14 Int: 9 Cha: 10 Siz: 15
Total stats: 74
Total stats with size counted as a liability: 44

Advantages -
Can breathe poison gas after level 50
Immune from poison gas
Regen in tainted wasteland environments, level 3

Disadvantages -
Sipping penalty, level 2

There is your comparison.

Overhaul would be good, but I'd personally preffer to have more info as to where this overhaul will be trying to aim for (balance races, how? Drastically change all their stats, advantages, disadvantages, I assume...). Either way, I think that only certain races could really use an overhaul where as others just need some fine-tunning to be ready (Viscanti, Aslarans, Dracnari, among others).

I am sure that something that should be mantained during this racial changes/overhaul/fine-tunning, is to try mantain whatever concept was invisioned and work around said concept (for example, let's see Taurians: Aggressive, strong, bulky, visceral, tribal, ruthless, feared in large numbers. Therefore aim to try make Taurians represent that-- sorta Heruli/ Berserker like). Again, a complete revolution for some races wouldn't be necessary, and probably the majority would do well enough with few changes.

On another note: I've always considered the exp penalty/advantages as warranted by the majority of the races considering their stats and general advantages. Still, there are some races that really shouldn't possess them such as trill, furrikin... and faelings, if the shadow faelings are somewhat tweaked. Oh, and probably a level 3 xp penalty is a bit too much for the Tae'dae.

Anyway, this is just my opinion. If anything, I believe that giving us more information on what is inteded to be achieved by the overhaul, and by what method -before- implementation would be a boon. Also, a free reincarnation would have to be needed to placate those beings that suddenly find themselves nothing more than prisioners of a body that they dire to escape, once the changes are implemented.

High Elfen -
Str: 10 Dex: 12 Con: 11 Int: 17 Cha: 15 Siz: 11
Stat total, not including size or charisma: 50

Elfen Lord -
Str: 14 Dex: 14 Con: 12 Int: 11 Cha: 15 Siz: 13
Stat total, sans size + cha: 51

Imperial Merian -
Str: 9 Dex: 10 Con: 10 Int: 18 Cha: 14 Siz: 12
REAL stat total: 47

Merian Lord -
Str: 14 Dex: 13 Con: 13 Int: 11 Cha: 14 Siz: 14
Only the good stuff: 51

Shadowcaster Faeling -
Str: 7 Dex: 17 Con: 9 Int: 15 Cha: 13 Siz: 5
Being realistic: 48

Shadowlord Faeling -
Str: 11 Dex: 17 Con: 13 Int: 10 Cha: 10 Siz: 6
Pwnage factor: 51

Master Viscanti -
Str: 11 Dex: 8 Con: 13 Int: 16 Cha: 10 Siz: 13
Unslanted stat total: 48

Brood Viscanti -
Str: 16 Dex: 10 Con: 14 Int: 9 Cha: 10 Siz: 15
And a little closer: 49

Actually, I'm looking up at that, still a little dis-satisfied. Guardians still don't need dexterity, so should we count that for them? And strength, for that matter, is nearly as useless as dexterity. And is intelligence really as important for a warrior as strength? Shouldn't these be weighted? I dunno.

I trust changes aren't going to be made just on numbers basis. For example, if there are a lot of magnagorans, and the specialization race in the city is viscanti, it stands to reason there will be a lot of viscanti. It does not de facto mean that specialized viscanti are better than Specialized merian. But I'm sure They have taken all of this into account.

On the other hand, I think the races that no one is playing ARE meaningful in the large scale numbers lists. Orlach suck. No one is one. For RP reasons, I'd love to be!

I kinda think Shadowcaster Faelings got the shaft. I think they need some kinda upgrade cause right now mugwumps are better than them and mugwumps arent even a specialized race. (And take away the experience penalty.... Please?)

Mugwump

Strength : 12 Dexterity : 14 Constitution: 10
Intelligence: 15 Charisma : 11 Size : 12


Shadowcaster Faelings

Strength : 7 Dexterity : 17 Constitution : 9
Intelligence : 15 Size : 5 Charisma : 13

Yeah, that's one thing I noticed...the Shadowcasters got less than desireable stats.

I'd prefer Shadowcaster Blacktalon over Mugwump, but yeah, Mugwump is better for your poor Wiccans.

I think most races need a major overhaul. At least one third of them are just crappish and are there for rp and nothing more. And yes.. I do think a level 60 furrikin should be able to kill a level 35 whatever if they were trying, but no.. we can't. I can -barely- bash alone and I'm level 61. I'm talking about water bashing.. y'know the place they tell all the little level 30s to bash. Yeah. I think furrikins need a major overhaul along with trills, dwarves, lucidians, orclachs, and taurians.

Personally I don't really care if the top 100 are such and such race. It should be made possible to whatever race they want to be and at this moment in time I doubt there will be a titan/demigod that isn't some tanky race, because of the limitations of the lesser races.


On a lesser note, racial emotes would be a really cute and nice addition.
and if anyone should get the 'hairball' emote it should be the aslarans

30's? When starsuckers can haul off and hit your for 1.2k? Water and Earth are where I got most of 50-64.

I don't think shadowcaster faelings are particularly inferior, as it only affects Blacktalon and Shadowdancers, but that's me. Our spec is definitely not as good as Shadowlord, though.

I choose my races based on the RP, mostly. My two characters (BT and Geos) are faeling and trill. I chose Bau's race between faeling and furrikin as I've said before, and it was because of what I wanted her to be as a person, not as a fighter or basher. And my trill... well, I thought it'd be interesting. I've had some interesting conversations about being a trill Geomancer.

Go ahead with the overhaul, though - if you're already of a mind to, Estarra, there is no point in not doing it.

1.2k? WTF? I took 2k from that attack! (I now take like 900, but yeah.)