Race changes

by Unknown

Back to Common Grounds.

Nyla2005-06-07 00:19:34
QUOTE(Syrienne @ Jun 6 2005, 07:14 PM)
Quite unlikely since only people who might be in a position to be given one can already influence undead.
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I've tried offering them to Serenwilde to 'convert' Angkrag... they said no..
Terenas2005-06-07 00:22:10
Armor plays a big role in determining wounding damage.

Laysus's 61/40 robes made him take 22 woundings with 190 and 221 weapons.

His 84/75 helm made him take 16 woundings.

Vix's 56/38 robes made her take 25 woundings.

Double lunge to Laysus's head gave 19 wounding.

Double lunge to Laysus's chest gave 26 wounding.
Roark2005-06-07 00:22:52
QUOTE(Ixchilgal @ Jun 6 2005, 08:01 PM)
Seriously.  I was staff casting at an average of 4 seconds before the racial upgrades.  We get the upgrades, I go to about 3.5 second staff casting.  Yay!  Then they nerf the -ONLY- reason (statistically) to play a Mugwump, and it's back down to a 4 second staff cast.

I appreciate all the work folks do for this game, but geeze, it'd be nice if my upgrade didn't get downgraded right away, so I end with a net result of zero change, against (most) folks getting some good stuff.
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This makes no sense because pointing a staff takes 4 seconds without any bonus, so you were doing more than 4 seconds before the change. Right now you are pointing your staff at 3.16 seconds, not 4 seconds. Granted, that's only slightly better than level 2 was before, but the point there is it is still slightly better and furthermore it is an upgrade in light of opportunity cost: IE-if it was not boosted then it would have be downgraded like everything else with a speed bonus. Thus relative to all other races with a speed bonus, it is an upgrade.
Syrienne2005-06-07 00:24:22
this wounding is getting kind of insane...
Shiri2005-06-07 00:26:14
QUOTE(roark @ Jun 7 2005, 01:22 AM)
This makes no sense because pointing a staff takes 4 seconds without any bonus, so you were doing more than 4 seconds before the change. Right now you are pointing your staff at 3.16 seconds, not 4 seconds. Granted, that's only slightly better than level 2 was before, but the point there is it is still slightly better and furthermore it is an upgrade in light of opportunity cost: IE-if it was not boosted then it would have be downgraded like everything else with a speed bonus. Thus relative to all other races with a speed bonus, it is an upgrade.
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So...L2 gains 0.6 seconds per attack, as a Furrikin I gain 0.3 seconds? Mugwump presumably makes that 0.9 seconds? Meh...guess I won't be noticing mine. :/ Oh well. I hope more guilds start using magic damage to kill than mine, then.
Unknown2005-06-07 00:28:18
QUOTE(Ixchilgal @ Jun 7 2005, 12:17 AM)
If you don't think they needed something, try coping with level 3 penalties to fire and lightning, -and- having a 10 Constitution.

Being fast is all they have.  Because if you shuffled your feet in a thick carpet and poked them, they die.
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Coping with 10 con, like I have with a trill for all this time? rolleyes.gif

That said, aquamancers would tear you up, but you don't fight in a demense if you can avoid it anyway if it's not someone you can beat easily.
Unknown2005-06-07 00:48:12
QUOTE(Guardian_Shiro @ Jun 6 2005, 07:57 PM)
Strength    : 16  Dexterity : 10  Constitution : 15
  Intelligence : 14  Size      : 12  Charisma    : 12    tongue.gif
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You're expecting less size for a warrior specialization?
Ixchilgal2005-06-07 01:10:59
QUOTE(roark @ Jun 6 2005, 07:22 PM)
This makes no sense because pointing a staff takes 4 seconds without any bonus, so you were doing more than 4 seconds before the change. Right now you are pointing your staff at 3.16 seconds, not 4 seconds. Granted, that's only slightly better than level 2 was before, but the point there is it is still slightly better and furthermore it is an upgrade in light of opportunity cost: IE-if it was not boosted then it would have be downgraded like everything else with a speed bonus. Thus relative to all other races with a speed bonus, it is an upgrade.
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As you said before, lag and the like could slow that down a bit. However, my lag has been pretty consistent pretty much the entire time I've been playing on Lusternia, so I can still judge reasonably well how much difference something is making.

Now, do I have a better speed compared to everyone else? Yes. I'm still faster than everyone else (Not accounting for lag, of course).

However, I'm only -barely- faster than I was before the upgrades. So, the net result is a -very- small bonus. Small to the point that unless I'm actually playing on the Lusternia server itself, I probably won't notice it.

So, while other races got stat boosts, damage resistences, etc., Mugwump got a speed increase so slight that it makes no real difference.
Let's look at my previous example with Revan.
I used to do about 900 damage to Revan (On average). I now do 700 damage. And we'll assume for the sake of arguement, that we're going based on the speeds Roark has provided.
So, in a 60 second period, I can now hit him 18 times, for a grand total of about 12,600 damage.
I don't know the exact time previously for staff casting, but Roark did say it was slight, so we'll assume that it was a 3.5 second staff cast (Which strikes me as being fairly significant, but again, this is just to demonstrate something). So, in 60 seconds, with a 3.5 second staff cast, I could hit 17 times, with an average 900 damage a shot, for a grand total of 15,300 damage.
In fact, let's assume there was no speed reduction at all - with a four second staff cast, you can launch 15 attacks in a 60 second period, for a total of 13,500 damage (Assuming an average of 900 damage a shot, as I used to do). So, even without a speed bonus, I would have done more damage overall before, than I do now.

So, the net damage I lose in 60 seconds is in the range of 2700 over the course of 60 seconds. Now, that's against a Viscanti, admittedly, who got damage resistences to poison, cutting and blunt, which is all my staff does. However, other races got poison resistence, cutting resistence, and blunt resistence (Not all at once, mind you, but many races got those sorts of resistences).
Mugwump Druids using their Cudgel are going to experience a similar damage reduction overall, because the speed boost is not enough to compensate for the bonuses other races got.

Combine this with the fact that they have the same below average Constitution, and they take far more damage from fire and lightning (I'm not sure how common lightning is outside of runed weapons, but I know fire is very common), they are now in a worse position than they were previously.
Daganev2005-06-07 01:11:27
Syrienne, comparing damage between a rapier and broadsword is not going to get you any results other than the broadsword doing more damage.
Geb2005-06-07 01:13:44
QUOTE(terenas @ Jun 6 2005, 11:42 PM)
On everyone but Guardians and races with Magic resistance.  tongue.gif
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Or anyone with health greater than 3k. I was never in trouble of dying from his moonburst, as long as I retained a connection with the server.
Tehn2005-06-07 01:13:56
Broadswords shouldn't do more wounding damage, which was the point... I believe.
Ixchilgal2005-06-07 01:15:23
QUOTE(Jello @ Jun 6 2005, 07:28 PM)
Coping with 10 con, like I have with a trill for all this time?  rolleyes.gif

That said, aquamancers would tear you up, but you don't fight in a demense if you can avoid it anyway if it's not someone you can beat easily.
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And apparently Jello is illiterate, or just blind.

Yes, Trill had 10 Con. Trill did -not- have level 3 damage penalties to Lightning and Fire. Hence the "and" that I stated.
Unknown2005-06-07 01:45:20
QUOTE(Ixchilgal @ Jun 7 2005, 01:15 AM)
And apparently Jello is illiterate, or just blind.

Yes, Trill had 10 Con.  Trill did -not- have level 3 damage penalties to Lightning and Fire.  Hence the "and" that I stated.
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Uh, I mentioned aquamancers because they're the ones who do fire damage.
Unknown2005-06-07 01:49:47
QUOTE(Jello @ Jun 6 2005, 03:45 PM)
Uh, I mentioned aquamancers because they're the ones who do fire damage.
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As well as Blast, and tons of different mobs.
Icarus2005-06-07 02:23:22
QUOTE(Tehn @ Jun 7 2005, 09:13 AM)
Broadswords shouldn't do more wounding damage, which was the point... I believe.
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Haha, Ixion's broadswords are ungodly. They probably have 200+ damage and precision. happy.gif
Unknown2005-06-07 02:27:03
People will be buying the wounding and damage plus runes
Syrienne2005-06-07 02:45:38
actually Ixions broads are much less precision than mine.
Malicia2005-06-07 07:16:33
So Syrienne, what was that you were saying about how terrible faeling lords are? dry.gif


Should listen next time. Now, when do we change wounding back to what it was? I don't like this at all. Speedknights dominate over STR knights. That wasn't what anyone wanted, I'm sure.
Syrienne2005-06-07 07:21:14
I dont think you people honestly know WHAT You want. Except to have everything handed to you anyways.. Faelings got nerfed in every aspect of their combat but still I'm getting complained at. What is it you people want to happen? You asked the Divine to do all this work and take all these factors into consideration, ALL of you got a fat upgrade and I got only negatives and you're still not satisfied over what you started out being pissed about.. some people will never be happy.
Daganev2005-06-07 07:24:46
Thats funny because Syrienne beat me, but not all that badly. Sure she was doing 2K bleeding at the end, but I think I wasn't curing it at all.

I was also doing random hits here and there and the firs time we fought she had to run.


Speed knights don't own, just the more experienced fighters prefer speed over straight damage cuase thats what they are use to.