If it's such a small change, why change it? Obviously, it was a significant change, or else it wouldn't have bothered to be done.

Lucidian are all right, but there's nothing ultra special about them. They've got a nice balancing of Int/Con, and depending on your guardian/mage class that might be right for you. I still prefer Dracnari despite the sip penalty. I like the fire resists for bashing.

Remember if you still think they suck that if you consider that these numbers are possibly balanced out for allowing specialised Lucidian, they'll probably be pretty damned good overall. I still don't like Trill, I doubt they'll get the specialisation so I see little hope for them. Good int, average other stats, flying (common ability anyway), not so good resists (so far - cold isn't that common).

They actually are...tae'dae just became whole seconds faster, just ask them. They're barely feeling any penalty at all compared to normal balance.

If everyone with a faster race notices that they became a lot slower, and everyone with a slow race notices they became a lot faster, I don't think I'm hallucinating when I said the changes were crippling, and need to be reversed entirely.

There's a lot of people extremely disappointed in seeing their race completely nerfed, when it wasn't even overpowered before, I'm just one of the loudest .

We should just reverse the speed changes, see which race is overpowered and why, then balance that race...instead of using a sledgehammer for something a little tap could have fixed. The speed code works perfect for all IRE products, changing it like this will just destroy one of the best aspects of IRE games.

It sounds like Roark adjusted it again, and more in our FAVOR.

Honestly, the way I look at it is. I'm moving faster. Not as fast as with the original lvl 3, but faster than I did at lvl 2. So it's not as big an upgrade as I'd like. But I'll live.

Damn lack of sleep.

That's kind of the point, though. The sip penalty is a legacy from a world where speed owned. Even before the nerfing, speed didn't own here; speed knights were generally considered non-viable before warrior changes, and barely viable after, and with speed nerfed maybe back to being non-viable. All this largely because of the differences in how poisons work here vs. Achaea. The sip penalty should have gone away when the 100% poisons rate went away, back during development.

I could justify the herb penalty since herbs are plants and we're carnivores... but it's a real reach. I just can't see any IC or OOC justification for that sip penalty in Lusternia.

And the way Merian, furrikin, unspecialized faeling and aslaran look at it, is they are paying more penalties to be slower than before the changes, you got upgraded, we got downgraded.

Do you have any idea how slow my herbbalance is now? Why do I have to pay more penalties to have slower offense and slower curing?

That said, I'll wait for the apparently new adjustments and do some tests.

The only change needed was a lvl2 reduction on balance for shadowlords and a +1con +str to make up for it. They were the only race that speed was an issue with, as can be seen from all the threads saying they are way to fast with all the other benefits they get.

Roark even said that the only reason the speed code got rewritten, was shadowlord faeling..so yeah.

I think in this case the situation can be compared to trying to hit a butterfly with a truck, instead of using a butterfly net.

Three pages back, someone suggests more trill upgrades

I would be very surprised, I'm glad to have gotten what I did. No noticeable advantages, but it's not going to do anything specific to hold me back either

It would be worse if we went back to the original balance.

And, a reminder. Estarra ASKED if we wanted race-revisions. We all said yes. Here's your changes. Suck it up.

Race revision != speed changes. The two are seperate issues that have been combined into one thread cause hijacking is the current fad.

With the exception of those who were at level 3 balance, you guys are complaining about less than .4 second differences. Mugwump were a very succesfull race before their minor buffs. faelings were too good and got a bit of a nerf, aslaran lost some speed but got some faster eq. I'm not impressed by any of the arguments I've heard thus far for changing balance back.

Neither have I. I love having THE fastest eq out there.

Race revision is fine. It's rather a matter of fact that the admins gave some races some supposed upgrades that were later 'softened' to the point they are virtually not changed at all. All of the races got upgrades in one sense or another, but it doesn't change the fact that the only good upgrade Mugwump got was nothing more than a joke. So let's see here, Aslaran got +1 eq, cold resistance, +1 con/str, but in turn gained an herb penalty. Oh wait, we forgot that their balance was also downgraded, and the eq upgrade is equivalent to .3 second faster. So in effect, they traded in their level 2 speed balance (the only thing that made Aslaran stand out) for an herb penalty, a level 1 cold resistance (only one single skill in the entire game does cold damage, and like one person has cold rune), a useless level 1 eq bonus.

Furrikin supposedly got an eq bonus on top of their speed bonus, but since both are reduced, they are in fact slower than before the upgrade, great trade! And when you compare those upgrades to the ones that Krokani, Tae'dae, Taurian, Elfen and Merian Lords got, it's utterly rediculous. What do the admins want everyone to do, go warriors?

Jello, you barely ever fight, and your race has speed advantages nor disadvantages, how on earth would you know anything about it? You aren't among the people that got faster, and you aren't among the people that got slower.

And erion, I'd rather fight someone overpowered while being powerful myself, than fighting someone balanced while being underpowered. You don't have anything to complain about either, since you still end up more powerful than before, unlike me.

It's simple, one overpowered race cannot justify weakening 5 or 6 other races, that were not overpowered. It's easy telling us to shut up if you aren't negatively affected by it in the slightest isn't it?

For furrikin to be slower overall after getting a bonus to eq, the current level 1 bonus would have to be less than half of the previous level 1 bonus, since they now have two level 1's.

Since Roark said it was changed a second time.. care to make some tests and post them here Thorgal?

He said he was going to, I don't know if he already did, since I don't notice any difference, I'm thinking he didn't yet.

He said he had. nejii noticed a difference.