LPC works the same way. Ah, I should get back to coding my mud, but I can't decide on how I want the story and the sides to be. Lusternia has raised the bar for me by quite a bit there

Hey Jello, just to prove I've been playin Achaea LLC games for too long, Vortex was originally based off the code for Avalon the UK based MUD, the first commercial one I think, never actually paid to play Avalon beyond the trial period and that was 5 years ago or more, but Avalon is original coding and not based off anything else, think Vortex was a port of Avalon's coding mixed with some home grown self coding.

Maybe I'm wrong, but pretty sure that is where Vortex comes from rather than an LP port.

The original Avalon code that Mihaly licensed was called Hourglass I believe. I am not sure where Vortex came from, but it was not developed by Mihaly/Achaea. If I remember it correctly he licensed it in binary form from the author, and eventually bought it outright. The only other mud I can think of that used Vortex was Cardea.

I am not exactly sure why anyone would pay 10k to license Rapture particularly as some of the design decisions were motivated by compatibility issues with legacy code. It all looks a bit old fashioned really, I particularly enjoyed the caveat in the documentation about not deleting list members while iterating over them. Someone made the comment earlier in this thread about getting a 4 year degree and becoming a coder to see what Rapture was like, well surely part of the reason to write your own scripting language is so you don't need to be a trained programmer to use it? If you are a serious developer you could probably find better ways to spend 10k to develop your own tools. I suspect Mihaly priced it relatively high so he doesn't have to deal with endless requests for the code from fanbois who want to start their very own Achaea. There was talk several years ago of a limited connection free version being made available, but AFAIK nothing came of it.

The DGD LP driver has a similar commercial licensing policy. Felix Cross, the author, once offered to license it for a modest amount up front and a percentage of revenue, but got tired of dealing with all the enquiries from people who just weren't serious enough to ever get anything done. I know Mihaly is fond of stating that if you don't have at least 10k to invest then you have little chance of producing a successful commercial game. I believe Felix now sells commercial DGD licenses for in excess of $100,000.

There is a scripting language for Rapture that you don't need to be a programmer to use, but Rapture itself is a programming language.

The reason it is priced so highly is twofold:

Firstly, you're right, part of it is an off-putting tactic for everyone that would take it and either do nothing with it or use it so awfully that the reputation of it and by inferrence IRE would be damaged.

Secondly, Rapture isn't just a programming language, it's also a server which compiles and runs said language. This removes A LOT of the backend stuff needed to run a MUD, as it basically gives you a nice little framework for you to work in without worrying (too much) about server-side issues.

Besides that, Rapture is just good at what it's for. It'd probably suck for any other purpose, but for building and running MUDs it is excellent, particularly if you want them to run quickly as Rapture is often built with speed in mind over all other considerations.

As Lisaera said, Rapture is more than just some scripting language. It is a server, which handles ALL back end things needed to run a mud.

It is great for muds, but it has been used for other things.

Vortex was not a code base, but another(VERY simple) language.

Even if one pays 10k for it, they will not get their own Achaea. Purchasing a license gets you something that accepts connections, and that's about it. You get WHO, SAY, and one room(from what I have heard from the only company thus far to purchase it). Ofcourse, you get some support aswell, but that's a pretty standard and common sense thing.

No, you get a whole server and a whole software backend for 10k, basically you probably can start designing your content right away without having to hardcode all the little things running in the background that are required to even let you output a formatted ansi paragraph automatically.

I haven't seen Rapture of course but from what Hajamin and Lisaera describe it's worth it.

10k is a good price for what it does, and what it allows one to do.

I see one anonymous user browsing this and I know it's teh Hajamin. Gotcha!

well two now. *randomly pokes into the air* Lisaera? Better stop poking, gods detonate easily.

Rapture was developed in-house to meet the specific needs of Achaea, including compatibility with legacy code, and not with the needs of a wider audience in mind. Of course a talented team could take Rapture and produce a decent game, but they would be working with tools that were designed to someone elses specifications and to solve someone elses problems.

I don't doubt that Rapture is good at what it does, the success of IRE's games can atest to that. My point was rather that the budding developer with 10k burning a hole in their pocket could probably find better things to spend it on. There are free alternatives out there, ColdC comes to mind for one.

A year or so ago, I encountered a mud in construction. It was, I believe, rapture code - At least it looked like it. It had mostly the same emotes, one room, WHO, SAY, etc. I wish I remembered the connection details, and could see if anything had actually appeared. Even the colour scheme of the one room and the prompt seemed distinctly rapture/IRE like. It was way before Lusternia came out, though. A-something was the name, not sure of anything else, sadly.

Possibly Akanbar, although I don't think it is Rapture based, it is certainly influenced by IRE or one of the other Avalon family of games.

Might have been it. Same commands, etc, emotes very similar. There are probably a few muds out there trying to mimic IRE muds, though.

It'd be a dream come true if IRE did a WoT mud. It's not likely, I know, but... *daydream*

WoT MUDs are very badly done for the most part, they've been attempted many times but in my opinion the WoT universe just isn't right for MUDs.

In what way?

I guess the magic system in WoT is fairly open-ended, but that could be catered for fairly well with some interesting coding. Eg. Code all the different elements, then code how they can all itneract with eachother. That sounds like a heck of a lot of work though...hmm.

Meh you're probably right.

Screw WoT! What I'd really like to play, is IRE mud based on White Wolf's World of Darkness! That would be awesome if done well.

The whole, channelers have different strengths thing is a pain in WoT muds. The blademaster forms though - They are my favourite part of it. That and stuff like Aiel spear dancing. I like the WoT magic, but it's a little to powerful to make much sense in a mud, but what I really love is the varied combat styles.

Rapture was developed to meet the specific needs of making muds. Not Achaea, Vortex didn't have many of the things Rapture does. It was created to be backwards compatable, but it's goal was for making muds not just Achaea.

From the IRE 'About Us'

In 2000, Iron Realms helped organize, and developed software for, the United Nations-sponsored World Summit of Young Entrepreneurs, during which IRE's CEO, Matt Mihaly, served as Senior Consultant to the Secretary-General. The software IRE developed allowed participants from low-technology countries around the world to interact with attendees at the physical summit held in the World Trade Center in NYC.


Did he use Rapture to accomplish this? I always assumed so because the realms themselves have always seemed to emphasize communities.

From the Rapture manual:

Traditionally, Rapture has been used to create large scale multi-user games (MUDs) in which text is the primary interface. However, the structure of Rapture is general enough to allow development of various different projects. For instance, an interactive chat system was developed in conjunction with a United Nations affiliated organization. It is obvious that the applications of Rapture are vastly farther reaching than the goals in the initial design. It is merely a tool, use it as your will and imagination let you.