War

by Amaru

Back to Common Grounds.

Marsu2005-06-11 21:49:31
Alright, give all of Celest our skills and we Magnagorans will take your skills and I guarantee that Magnagora will still win. I personally don't give a damn if I die, I will gladly throw myself at anything without the ability to lich as I have proven during my times in Celest and Serenwilde and I know plenty of others that would as well.
Amaru2005-06-11 21:50:05
QUOTE(Thorgal @ Jun 11 2005, 10:47 PM)
Replace lichdom touch by a decent offensive skill, like radiance for example, and only make it possible to enable lichseed at night.
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Give lichdom a different and more original (soulcage) advantage than the no exp loss thing.
Shamarah2005-06-11 21:50:36
How about one (or more, but probably one would do) of these solutions:

1) Lichseed can only be activated once per RL day.
2) Lichseed cannot be used if you are already a lich.
3) If an eye sigil is dropped in the room they die in, souls cannot move.
Erion2005-06-11 21:50:50
QUOTE(Shamarah @ Jun 11 2005, 05:46 PM)
Look, here's a simple showing of how much lich affects combat:

Let's say Thorgal was killing turtles in the Inner Sea, is attacked by a group, dies, and has lichseed up (which anyone with one-eighth of a brain would).  Thorgal now has 30 seconds to get away - and don't even think of bringing up eye sigils, because we're hardly going to eye sigil the world.  He can easily make it far, far away and probably quite close to Mag - and, as he is a tarot Nihilist, upon reforming he can use hermit, and since he'll be smart and go to a room with no monolith, there'll be no chance of stopping it from happening.  Thus, Thorgal gets away with 0% experience loss, despite the fact that he was in enemy territory, and a slight loss of power.

Now, let's take Amaru killing seawolves in the Sea of Despair.  Amaru is attacked by a group, dies, and vitaes.  The people who killed him dropped a monolith, so he isn't able to hermit out.  He tries to run away, but because he isn't a soul and he can be watched and attacked, he is hunted and killed.  Because he is in enemy territory, he loses 60% experience and a slight bit of power.

And to the Magnagorans who think Lich shouldn't be downgraded: out of the last 10 times you died, how many of those times have you lost experience?  Because I lose it every time I die.
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Owned. Celestialism just needs a lichseed-esque ability which turns them into an angel! Bam. Done. Or, for 10 power and the sacrifice of your angel (another, what, 5 power?) you can rezz someone's soul (room-only) or body (area-only). Woo. And they get 1/2 second of grace. Bam!
Thorgal2005-06-11 21:52:12
QUOTE(Amaru @ Jun 11 2005, 11:50 PM)
Give lichdom a different and more original (soulcage) advantage than the no exp loss thing.
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The whole point of lichdom is to escape death, so that's not gonna happen.

The only thing that might change at some point, is the ease to put up lichseed. In other words, either only once per 12 hours, or only at night.
Shamarah2005-06-11 21:53:21
The solution isn't to make a Celestialism clone of Lichdom, it's to make Lichdom less crazy and experience-loss-avoidant. If everything was the same it'd be balanced but it'd also be boring.

Oh, and to those who say they don't care about losing experience: you might not, but plenty of people do, and furthermore, the fact that you don't lose experience gives you an advantage over Celestians in that you can get away for free when they don't, and thus you have a much easier time maintaining your level and thus your strength.
Thorgal2005-06-11 21:53:48
QUOTE(Shamarah @ Jun 11 2005, 11:50 PM)
How about one (or more, but probably one would do) of these solutions:

1) Lichseed can only be activated once per RL day.
2) Lichseed cannot be used if you are already a lich.
3) If an eye sigil is dropped in the room they die in, souls cannot move.
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1) Might be a possibility.

2) Most retarded suggestion ever, since that'd mean no one would ever be undead.

3) Might be a possibility, but way too drastic.
Daevos2005-06-11 21:55:13
QUOTE(Shamarah @ Jun 11 2005, 09:50 PM)
How about one (or more, but probably one would do) of these solutions:

1) Lichseed can only be activated once per RL day.
2) Lichseed cannot be used if you are already a lich.
3) If an eye sigil is dropped in the room they die in, souls cannot move.
136600


Ahh, I see now you want Lichdom to be useless huh.
Unknown2005-06-11 21:55:27
Those are good points Shammarah, but the inner sea is just one area and situation. In raids and the rest eye sigils should work fine. Magnagora's advantage in the inner sea is kind of like Serenwilde's advantage on ethereal really. Very cheap sleep.gif

EDIT: That said, I think changes to the areas or the way the skills work in those areas specifically is more important than changing the skills.
Shamarah2005-06-11 21:56:58
QUOTE(Daevos @ Jun 11 2005, 04:55 PM)
Ahh, I see now you want Lichdom to be useless huh.
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How would that make it useless? It's just be less insane.

By the way, answer my question. How many times have you lost experience out of your last 10 deaths?
Daevos2005-06-11 21:57:15
QUOTE(Jello @ Jun 11 2005, 09:55 PM)
Those are good points Shammarah, but the inner sea is just one area and situation. In raids and the rest eye sigils should work fine. Magnagora's advantage in the inner sea is kind of like Serenwilde's advantage on ethereal really. Very cheap  sleep.gif

EDIT: That said, I think changes to the areas or the way the skills work in those areas specifically is more important than changing the skills.
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Actually no, Magnagora is quite disadvantaged in the water.
Unknown2005-06-11 21:58:36
QUOTE(Daevos @ Jun 11 2005, 09:57 PM)
Actually no, Magnagora is quite disadvantaged in the water.
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Doesn't the sea of despair count as tainted for viscanti regen? And we rarely fight in the inner sea, just run in and kill stuff and run out.
Shamarah2005-06-11 21:59:01
QUOTE(Jello @ Jun 11 2005, 04:55 PM)
Those are good points Shammarah, but the inner sea is just one area and situation. In raids and the rest eye sigils should work fine. Magnagora's advantage in the inner sea is kind of like Serenwilde's advantage on ethereal really. Very cheap  sleep.gif
136607



Well, duh, I was using it as an example so that no one would bring up the stupid eye sigil argument. I think it's a stupid argument because people would probably just run in and disenchant them, as eye is a fairly low level in enchantment anyway. Also, doors won't work in this situation, and they wouldn't work in most, except for the mines - in any other village, there isn't a front door like that.
Unknown2005-06-11 21:59:06
QUOTE
It doesn't seem like lichdom is the problem, Amaru. Neither you, nor Malicia, nor Triden, nor Folkien, nor Cronnacht, nor Munsia have it, yet all of you raid Glomdoring and its holdings pretty often and I haven't seen any of you die while raiding yet (though Munsia has been killed a few times in Faethorn in retaliation).



To set things straight I have only raided Glomdoring or its holdings 5 times since the Commune was created. The first instance was with Laysus to kill Elaria and Citera in return for them having killed him at an earlier point. The second time was with Malicia and a large group, I participated in that just to kill Jasper because he attacked Ibaesha in Serenwilde. Recently I have raided Paavik 3 times and I only killed villagers I did not attack other players. I only did this because Ethelon likes to kill non-combatants on Ethereal. My third raid fell short because Ethelon did in fact kill me. Cronnacht has little fighting ability and he is a defensive fighter except for rare exceptions. Believe me the xp loss for failing in that third raid serves as a huge determent to doing it again.
Marsu2005-06-11 21:59:18
Okay so how does this one sound:

Lichdom is intended to be used as a defense with the +2 stats at night time and therefore losing no experience to become a lich the FIRST time is perfectly fine.

If you die AS a lich with lichseed up, you lose the same experience as if you vitae but keep the other advantages.

This couldn't really be abused in any way as the necromancer would actually have to die WITHOUT lichseed up and therefore lose experience to clear themselves of their undead form.

So maybe they get -one- escape from death with no experience penalty but how often do you see a necromancer running around whom isn't liched already?

This way we keep our already kinda crappy skillset at a mediocre level but we lose out like you guys.
Nokraenom2005-06-11 21:59:39
We can't demesne the Sea of Despair underwater, despite it being tainted.
Unknown2005-06-11 21:59:53
QUOTE(Shamarah @ Jun 11 2005, 09:59 PM)
Well, duh, I was using it as an example so that no one would bring up the stupid eye sigil argument.  I think it's a stupid argument because people would probably just run in and disenchant them, as eye is a fairly low level in enchantment anyway.  Also, doors won't work in this situation, and they wouldn't work in most, except for the mines - in any other village, there isn't a front door like that.
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Do icewalls stop ghosts?
Shamarah2005-06-11 22:00:16
No one can demesne underwater.

EDIT: And Jelaludin, no, walls do not stop ghosts, souls, or dreambodies. Only doors do.
Marcalo2005-06-11 22:00:38
QUOTE(Shamarah @ Jun 11 2005, 04:56 PM)
How would that make it useless?  It's just be less insane.

By the way, answer my question.  How many times have you lost experience out of your last 10 deaths?
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3 times, i have almost lost level 80 now twice
Unknown2005-06-11 22:00:48
QUOTE(Nokraenom @ Jun 11 2005, 09:59 PM)
We can't demesne the Sea of Despair underwater, despite it being tainted.
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Unless they changed it, aquamancers can't demense in submerged areas either.