I saw a post about villages somewhere back there...and as everyone has already noted, demesnes are a huge part of winning over a village, so many Geomancers have died a lot trying to keep their own demesne up. And they do not have lich.

I disagree. Time to roll out my actual suggestion for correcting this.

Imagine if:

1) All deaths from PK gave about the same experience loss as vitae deaths do now
2) Praying is the big exp killer, as it is now, as well as being a soul at 0 mana
3) Instead of the current darkseed idea, liches are able to re-manifest their bodies from their souls at a time/place of their choosing.

Therefore:

Lich > vitae - because you get a chance to move yourself away from the situation after death, and to remain a soul until you decide the coast is clear

Lich > praying - because of the major exp advantage, timesaving

Lich would then be like a personal resurrection. This would put darkseed more on par with sacraments' resurrection, though slightly superior. The smaller exp loss on all deaths, vitae style, would be good at reducing the frustration/burnout of players.

Liches would still have a time restraint, because if their mana gets to 0 they start losing extra exp, like normal.

Most importantly, it would mean that liches are still discouraged from raiding, as anyone else is, though they are less likely to be killed twice (as with vitae users) or lose lots of exp (by praying).

That's a starter idea.

Before I go ahead and read this thread, I would gladly allow Necromancy a worthwhile skill if Lichdoms non-exp loss was removed.

Exactly my point. If you were a Celestian, you would have lost experience all 10 times, and you would have lost level 80 for sure.

I think the problem then is with ghost, not lichdom. There should be ways to afflict/slow down ghosts and dream bodies so that they're at greater risk of dying.

I agree Lichdom seems somewhat too much an advantage for Magnagora in some situations but I do think nerving Lichdom won't solve the problem of Magnagora owning whoever they decide to focus on.

The simple truth is that no other city has as big a number of very capable combatants with as much experience, equipment, discipline and most of all dedication as Magnagora does.

Each other city or commune has their reason why they can't quite compare to Magnagora (though the Serenwilde can do a fairly good job if they really want to), but parts of Magnagora having Lichdom isn't really that much part of it.

Gah. I'm not complaining about Magnagora winning everything.

I'm saying that though most of it is well-earned, the unbalanced advantages need to be removed.

I think another big portion of this is Ghost, which they can use to easily bypass as many guards as we care to lay down, yet we have no such thing apart from Coalesce (which only one other Aquamancer has that I know of, whereas nearly every fighter with Necromancy has Ghost). And Coalesce has its own significant disadvantages and is generally much worse than Ghost.

I'll save that rant for another time, though.

I think kether should cause bleeding, and you can't clot in dream form

And add a move that does lesser damage and gives them temporary dizziness.

Dedication or numbers? As in, number of fighters? Imagine Celest with about, 10 Amarus or 10 Gebs. Or 10 worthy Paladins? Mag wouldn't be so quick to declare war on them, that's for sure. Hell, imagine the Serenwilde with the same. You can't force people to fight. You can't force people to buy a bunch of credits.

Lich is a great ability and most often times, Ur'guard and Nihilists lose no experience when raiding and often taunt the defenders when they get away. You know who you are.

Its nobodies fault that no-one wishes to join your guild, again it comes to sheer numbers.

Edit: This would be to Shamarah.

I wasn't complaining about that, I was saying that Coalesce is nothing near Ghost's equivalent and that only one guild has it as opposed to two, and it's also the least tanky guild, and thus Magnagora is able to use Ghost to bypass tons of guards constantly and almost no Celestians can do that.

As a Celestian and a Paladin, I could and did on two occasions enter Angkrag passing around 40 guards. Its not impossible at all.

Were there elementals all over the place that entangled you then, though?

The point is that it's much more difficult without ghost.

BUT! Back to discussing lich.

I couldn't say to be honest, have to ask a Magnagoran of the time. Heh

Paladins can get in fine, the same way Serenwilders do- serpent =P

Ever heard of a Paladin with Highmagic? that was me

True, just that most of our paladins are around 5-20% of my power at most. Few of them can even consider the idea of transcending low magic. Hopefully the future will bring more, but right now paladins with the serpent skill are near extinct.

Imagine 10 Daevos' or 10 Kaervas or 10 Thorgal's. There are no 10 Daevos, or Kaervas, or Thorgal's. There aren't even 10 Geomancer fighters or 10 Nihilist fighters, there is Ur'guard though.

*********************************************
Citizen Rank Position CT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daevos
Llexyn
Eruttu
Thorgal
Vorath
Ejene
Razyx
Solum
Arimisia
Torak
Jelaludin
Shinoska
Bara
Alger
Ishmael
********************************************************************

15 Magnagorans on out of about 55 people online on prime. You have 4 top level fighters (Daevos, Thorgal, Torak, Alger) and 4 beta level fighters (Llexyn, Eruttu, Razyx, Jelaludin) and the rest are newbies/non-combatants who most likely would help if ordered to.

That said, I don't think Celest could claim 1/4th of that. Rhysus is pretty on target when he says that Celest needs some cultural reorganization.