Your ability to string together words without actually saying anything is remarkable.

Your 'abilities which help in PvP' and your 'other abilities' are all skills possessed by characters...in other words, they are character skills. Distinguishing them by their use or lack of use to combat is irrelevant to the argument, so long as some of them are indeed used in combat.

Really, this is all stemming from a contradiction in your own argument, Amaru. I've simply become annoyed enough at your ravings to point it out and persist through your repeated attempts at rhetoric.

There are differences between skills that help in solo combat and abilities that help in group combat, is what I gather he's saying. This is certainly true.

Are you saying that my ability to ride a pony in Riding affects my combat ability, then?

Yes. Know why? Ponies are secretly Vernal Gods. Really.

I <3 my pony.

Indeed, that may well be so.

However, his original statement was that Magnagora is not favored in individual combat. I observed that character skills impact individual combat, and further that if Magnagora's skills were too powerful, then that would imply Magnagora to be favored in individual combat, which Amaru stated was not so...therefor, by his own argument, Magnagora's skills, and by extension Lichdom, are not too powerful...which is in direct contradiction to his initial argument.

Several posts of Amaru unsatisfactorily addressing this inconsistancy later...here we are.

See I'm in an argue with Yrael mood more than I'm in a debate with Melanchthon mood.

Edit: Melanchthon, your logic is weak and based on generalisations. I don't think anyone is falling for that argument.

But as there are skills that affect team combat more than they affect solo combat, it stands to reason that if Magnagorans have skills which affect team combat more than solo combat, their skills are not overpowered in solo combat, but in team combat are simply too strong. For example, boulderblast. Hits like 10 people at once, but does no more damage if it's aimed at a single person. Or, for an example that applies more, ectoplasm.

(I'm not sure whether this is actually applicable, as I'm too sleepy, but the logic behind the argument is at least potentially sound.)

Actually, Amaru, the only thing I really dislike about you is that you engage in what is known classically as rhetoric...persuasion without regard to truth.

As often as not, you are unable to back up your points and counterpoints with specific reasoning and arguments, instead making statements that do not address the issues they are meant to respond to. Why? Because having worked the matter out enough in your own mind to convince yourself your stance is correct, but not to the extent to determine if your position is really true, you seek to persuade others.

You are a rhetorician.

My observation on your statements contains no generalities, only specific, logical derivatives. You would be better off to simply say you made a mistake on that one point...but I assume it is your pride preventing you, Amaru.

Yah, I'm just a sophist through and through.

Edit: (Disciples of Klangratch): Thorgal (from the Prime Material Plane) says, "Big words hide small penises."

You see what kind of people you're dealing with, Melanchthon? It's like Socrates trying to chat to a monkey!

I think Lich is fine. Yes, it is a factor that allows some, not all, Magnagoran characters to be more offensive, take greater risks, and obviously have a far easier time in terms of experience. But that is the benefit of having a powerful, unique skill. The same could perhaps be argued for Trueheal, and Rage, and whatever else.

I simply fear that Magnagora's clearly large proportion of eager and capable PK'ing players (no doubt in some way a function of the role of the city), along with the addition of a new organization which cannot help but contribute to their success, means that Celest and Serenwilde have little alternative but to ally. Quite strongly.

As disappointing as this is, I think it must be our answer, rather than changing the game mechanics of this skill or that.

You do know I warned you about repeatedly trying to wisp me before putting you on my list and killing you. I was more than fair. And the killing of non-combatants only goes so far as those who are colelcting Fae in Faethorn, which is the same Seren does to our people, so it's only fair.

Something which seems a little odd to me (not sure if it was mentioned already, not reading through all this) is how Celest, Serenwilde, and Magnagora all have rezz abilities of some sort and Glomdoring has nothing of the sort.

I know I do, two days a week for the past two weeks now, and one day next week, I get to drive for 2 hours total to work for 8 hours. Whee, I love Stop & Shop.

::stabs eye out::

Rest of the time I'm doing work in my home store. And as a result, I don't get to access lusternia from work like others do. Yay for summer jobs at the meat department!

Also, I'm personally in favor of having lich tuned down. The problem with lich-seeding at night only though, is that some people will just be on the hour before anything is planned to be done, and will lich-seed then perhaps. If the seed disappeared when the sun came up (and you weren't a lich), then it went away.. that would make more sense maybe.

But that's not the only transcendent skill I'd like to see made reasonable. I do believe Trueheal should take equilibrium or balance. It makes it so you can't insta-attack with full health and status repeatidly. However, end nerfing of that skill right there, as you can't do jack or that prismatic sphere goes down, that makes the full health, status effects removed, and invincibility for as long as you stand there looking like a moron twiddling your thumbs worth the power without being overpowered.

Serpent: I was told about how it was used to tank the guards on Celestia, and it needs nerfing. If you attack, it should go down, permanently. If not that, then let it last a length of time that the power cost cannot be recovered before it goes out. It's like trueheal's prismatic sphere.. only.. you can do stuff, like teleport away, or even walk, which can be used in ridiculous ways.

My apologies for this , but I have to offer grudging respect for speaking to me in my own language.

Are you actually suggesting that lichseed can be only put up at night and it disappears when the day comes up?
No, I think I misread it.

Lichseed at night only wouldn't solve anything. They'd just raid at night.

It seems the most emphatic discontent over Lichdom rests in liches not losing any experience to death. As a modified version of Amaru's suggestion, I would be alright with a lich death causing vitae experience loss, so long as one of two balances went in:

Either,

A) We gained the ability to stay in soul form and reform our bodies at our choosing, with the caveat that we would suffer the normal mana drain as a soul along with further xp loss if we reached 0 mana, so long as the eq penalty on reforming were moderately reduced.

Or,

B) The eq penalty on reforming be eliminated.

Or both. It would be like unblockable vitae plus the whole +2 STR thing. Personally I just feel Lichdom should be more about the Lich and less about the Liching, but people who are used to Liching are so vehemently opposed to having to actually pray and so forth that that sort of thing would never go through. So go with one of these, eh.

Basically having lichdom up is a risk of getting trapped where you get a nasty eq loss on reforming. If you force a lich to reform in the same room as you, then you will have the jump killing it.

sometimes i'd rather vitae than lich where eye sigils are involved, or other circumstances.

I'd be happy if lichdom was given a small xp loss, or at least gave the person killing them the pk xp bonus, I like the idea of being able to reform as a lich at will.

On the flip side if you nerf my lichdom then i'd better be getting someone good to replace it with

Unblockable... it can be stripped. +2 STR is useless to me...
Maybe it should be more about being a Lich actually, but it's not currently because being a lich isn't -that- cool (when it comes to practical advantages, not roleplay).