That's the thing though. Unlike you, people who die off-plane (and who don't have lichdom, ghost, or even conglutinate) don't get any of the benefits that they would've gotten had they been killed on Prime (f.e Avenger protection), but still lose as much. And that means people like Murphy who just want to cause people harm can go onto Ethereal, attack, we go protect, and die, and he loses nothing, whereas if he attacked someone in the middle of the road, wham, suspect status. I don't think this distinction can work -at all.- If there are lots of benefits off-prime (Astral's a great bashing ground, we have to protect Ethereal, Celest has to protect Celestia, etc.) then people who get dragged up there via necessity or near-necessity (bashing at L80+?) lose out. If there aren't as many benefits up there, then there's no point on having it because reducing the PK constrictions there just means no one will go there.

I think the whole "take PK off Prime" thing just doesn't work in practice. It needs to be scrapped. Have Avechna see the other planes too. That should sort things out.

Shiri: When I die off plane, I lose experience, because half the time I don't have lich up, due to the power (oh, woe is me) and if I do, I usually get killed again. I don't HAVE conglutinate, and if I ghost during combat, my afflictions (and bleeding) carry over. Meh, anyway. Oh, and it WOULD work if everyone got conglutination..

Actually, if everyone got conglutination, it wouldn't work much better than it is now. See, that reduces the loss of the person dying, but it doesn't act as a deterrent, because nothing STOPS them doing it again and again.

We don't need to go over ghost and lich again, the point's've been given and proven several times.

I don't think that you can control the flow of balance in Lusternia, Estarra. It's like a book and I'm still reading. I want to see how it turns out. It's a constant struggle but it's also a challenge and I find that appealing. I'm only speaking for myself. My character in Achaea had -nothing- to fight for. CTF's were fun, but that was the highlight of Achaea for most. Influencing villages are like that. It's exciting, frustrating but oh the satisfaction if you win. Even when we lose it just encourages you to try harder the next time.

I'd love to see new discretionary powers.

Perhaps the problem is the art of "pleasing all of the people all of the time". It's pretty clear that there's a wide range of different tastes in Lusternia, from the passive RPers that came to be safe from PK, to the folks who read about the quests and thought "YAY, no more bashing!" all through to the people who love tactics and group fights and right up to the 'dreaded PKer'. Thus you have every suggestion made replied with someone saying "That's a horrible idea!".

So we can't please everyone all of the time.. well, we CAN please them sometimes.

Take each of those major types, then look at the world and think "If I was that person, what would I be doing here?" Along with that, look at each of the major events and decide just what group it's supposed to be for.

I'll take Village Influencing for example. Is is realy supposed to be fore the non-PKers, and if so why is killing still so effective? If killing is supposed to be a part of it, why the emphasis on Sancs and Debate?

If it's for the non-pkers, then we can just make killing detrimental to the cause: give Sanc more power, and maybe have physical attacks be shunned by the denisens (Villager: "OMG that Mag just jumped on that poor faeling! The monster!" --Mag loses influence). That would make pk an option, but would make it easily backfire (do too much and, boom, you kill them all and lose the city).

If it's supposed to have pk then perhaps Sanc should be removed to allow a more pk flow. That, along with a well balanced system should do the trick I think.

(note those are just examples to get the idea)

If you realy want Pkers and Non-pkers involved, expect ALOT of complications and work on stopping exploits. Yes, I can think of an example, though not sure how good of one: Switch Sanc and Crusade with Diplomat and Soldier. When a village is in play, a person must decide on being one or the other and can't switch midway through. Diplomats are given something similar to Innocence- can't harm and can't be harmed, perhaps with many other limitations- and are the only ones that can Influence the townspeople. Soldiers, however, are killable by normal means, can't influence but can 'guard(for lack of a better word)' a denizen, making them unavailible to enemy Diplomats. The result is that non-PKers could become the influencers, safe from harm. The Pkers would be able to kill other pkers and block enemy diplomats from doing their job.

ALOT more complicated, but again it hopfully shows the point.

Each type of person needs to be able to do something that truly has an impact. If I'm in Celest and want to fight I want to point at some point in Mag and say "If I can stop that, Celest will prosper" or else "If I reach there/get that/defeat that then the Mag dogs will suffer!". If I'm not the fighting time I still want that "something" that, if I can pull it off, will bring glory to Celest.. or at least myself, and I want to know that I don't have to kill for it.

So, as my own type of game style, which is "fight if I need to, but I'd rather assist or raise lifestock" I say I need more ways to earn experience/money/advancement/enjoyment that doesn't leave me 70% sure I'm going to get attacked. Now there are a nice number of ways already (gotta love commodity quests), but more is merrier.

Also I'd like to throw two crazy ideas in the air, then I'll stop:

1: What if there was a (hard) way to destroy the taint from someone/thing, or completely corrupt something with the taint. By that I mean a method that allows Glom to fully Taintify Seren and it's spirits, or for Celest to fully cleanse Mag 'once and for all'

2: What if Nexii could be destroyed?

You can never have an end-game.

Hey I kinda like that Diplomat and soldier idea!

Absolutely never ever not ever going to happen. If the game ended for an entire team, basically the entire side would quit, leaving the other team with no opposition, and that's not going to make people play and buy credits. It sounds like a good idea at first but it's a horrible idea when you consider that Lusternia is part of a business and is going to have to keep running and sucking money out of players for credits for as long as humanly possible. "Winning" the game screws that up horribly. So, not even a relevant idea, I'm afraid.

Uh, that diplomat/soldier thing looks surprisingly decent, but I'm sure there's lots of loopholes in it. :/

Oh, and one more change that would probably benefit both Glomdoring and Serenwilde while damaging random (Celestian OR Magnagoran) detractors.

Along with removing the PK-must-be-off-prime thing, make Faethorn natives loyal to either Moon or Night spirit depending on its influence. Then stop the Glomdoring quest from -requiring- them to kill Faethorn Fae (leave it as an option, perhaps, but it'll be seen as raiding enemy territory during Moon's influence so it can be adequately protected) while allowing them another option similar (or even identical to!) the honeycomb quest. It puts both sides on more of an even footing than we have now, where Glomdoring has a mechanical advantage, and would stop this constant obnoxious defending we're both forced into at least partially.

If that would mess around with Glomdoring's ideology too much (though I don't really know what FORCES them to kill the Fae to enslave them and bind them in shadows) I'm sure a more subtle form of mental enslavement could be used as reasoning, such as...poisoned honeycakes, or somesuch. Do note the nice empty space on the West end of Faethorn opposite Butter Sweetpease.

The problem is that the Fae don't trust us. They know what we do. They won't go willingly.

Surely they don't trust the Magnagorans and Celestians either? Honey is like addictive to them or something. Besides, if that won't work, use some excuse like...poison. Passive poison thing. Iunno. Something nonviolent, is the point.

I threw those two last bits just to see the reaction. If Cities/Communes weren't so rock solid in form it might work: new cities would be made over time, and old ones would die out with the people from the city moving to another city.

It's not a Lusternia thing though.

The Diplomat/soldier idea shows my point: an event (like influencing, or planar travel) can either be focused for one type of person, or have a REALY complicated 'teamish' method to get multiple groups involved. In fact, I think that's why there's so many complaints now for it: Sancing and reliance on Influence is anti-pk but the ability to kill a person and the fact you must struggle with Demesne is very anti-passive, leaving the Pkers frustrated and the passives not wanting to bother.

The idea itself MIGHT work though.. perhaps when outside the village area you are normal, but once inside your 'occupation' is set. Also you could SEVERLY hamper the Diplomat: No offensive attacks, no demense, feats, or group moves.. basicly nothing except what's needed to influence.


Honestly, though, I think the majority seem to want Influence to be mostly passive, so I'd be more for the first idea: Killing is possible but each attack lowers your standing with the village, making some people switch to the 'attacked' side, and killing blows to a greater effect. I always prefered using less 'hard code' rules and more consequenses when possible: Kill if you want but the town will hate you.

Of course, villages that are naturaly 'violent' might LIKE the attackers more


Erion: Why not just have the ability to taint them? Grab a honeycomb (the same ones Seren uses) bring it to Glom, do some quick act to 'taint' it, then 'fling' it at a fae capturing them. They won't even have to trust you then.

Also, if the Queen is influenced to Night, then the fae WILL trust you, so the tables can turn (you can use the cakes, Seren will have to 'rescue' with Moon touched honey)

The Magnagorans have to kill them, too, unless Gorgulu's eaten all the Moon Avatars, then they're drawn by the Avatar's presence. Once they're at Raziela, they become over-powered by her love and simply surrender. When you're sharing at a large, tainted hound from hell, you realize what's going on, and beat it. They won't go willingly, not like they would to Raziela. We have to force them.

Hm, wait, so Magnagorans can't give them honeycombs? Eh. Darn. Well, some other viable reason can be found to MAKE it work. It's not like there aren't any options. If they won't come, force them, but through subtlety, not through violence. Maybe make stronger shadow webs out of honeycombs, that can compress a Fae into the tiny spirit globe form it goes into when you feed it a cake.

The point is the mechanic, in any case. It'd be like what the Furrikin Farmer quest was supposed to be like before people started going mad with enemying them and using statues and guards.

Honestly, this is how I think it should work. Night holds sway on Faethorn, we just need honeycombs. Moon holds sway, we need to kill. Night holds sway, you have to kill. Moon holds sway, you need honeycombs. Bam.

But that leaves us into the situation we have now where people attack up there and because of our ideologies we really need to go up there and defend it. (ESPECIALLY obnoxious when they do it during influencing as they've been trying so far.) And worse, with the PK rules applying to Ethereal, we wouldn't be ABLE to do this properly. I think it would help a lot if SOME part of these quests didn't end up amounting to violence.

PK Rules don't apply to ethereal - unless this was changed?

Read my earlier posts on just that subject.

Don't know how long you've been here, so I'll explain. Maeve is a spirit whom is made up of the essence of Greater Spirits - Moon, Hart, Sun, Night, Crow. When River and Bear return, They become a part of Maeve, too. When Night's spirits were Awakened, Night was awakened within Maeve. Maeve accepts Night, now. However, the Fae of the Faethorn are not so connected. They're scared of Night, what she does, and Her Avatars and Fae. So they run from Her and Her followers. That's really the Serenwilde's purpouse, now - cleansing the Basin of the Soulless Touch, and protecting the Fae.

Thus, if the Queen is influenced by Night, it won't matter where the Fae are concerned.

The fae have to be alive for us to give to Gorgulu.