I totally disagree - PK needs to be off prime, and remain off Prime. And Avechna should not recognize it. Especially Faethorn - if it's treated like a village, there'd be no suspect status anyway.

Only when he has the avatars, I thought. Feeding him dead Fae gave Magnagora power.

But then you run into the situation you have now, where by the Communes' ideologies you have to protect it, so too much conflict goes on there at the call of whoever wants it to be. It's like raiding a village. WHY is there a distinction between off-plane and on, except that people conglutinate there? That can't cover it all. The difference is completely arbitrary, and it needs to stop being this way. Seperating "prime" and "offprime" for the purposes of PK doesn't and cannot work.

If it's treated like a village, there'd be no suspect status anyway? I don't follow. It'd only be a village-in-play when it was undergoing the battles, otherwise it'd act as either a Seren or Glomdoring village for PK purposes.

Honestly, I'm strongly against moving pk rules off-plane. Sorry. You don't want to pray? Trans planar. That said, Geomancers should auto-conglute on Earth, it should be the first ability in geomancy, same with Aquamancy and Water. Same with Celestia and Celestialism, and Nil and Nihilism.

As to Faethorn, Night-totem users should conglute if Night holds sway, and Moon-totem users should conglute if Moon has sway.

As an after-thought, what if Maeve said, "I give Night my blessing, and my Fae will follow. We do not want you here, Moondancers!" It would negate some of the "OMG PROTECT TEH FAE", especially if they have to kill them to bring them to Moon. They wouldn't naturally be shadow-bound.

I give Gorgulu live fae all the time and it gives us power. Giving dead fae does nothing.

Ahh. So I was lied to! Well, that's overly lame. *nod me* Should be dead fae! Oh well. Then strike all marks relative to gorgulu getting dead fae.

Only the Glom got the stick. No rezz ability, only place that needs to kill Fae.

While I find this idea intriguing, it raises the same concern for me as the problem I discussed previously about Avenger and off-prime PK. It seems like the idea of moving PK off prime is to say, "if you want to PK, you have a place to go, and if you don't, you don't have to go there", which sounds great in theory. The problem is that there are so many other factors in the decision of whether to go off-prime or not, you can't really let this rule you without giving up your roleplay (not to mention a lot of tactical things). So in essence, you've just made it sound like you give people a choice (would you like to be seated in the Avenger or no-Avenger section, sir?) but in practice you aren't (because they only serve spam and oysters in the no-Avenger section).

Depending on which villages are allocated to being influence-by-influencing vs. influence-by-PK, you're almost certain to do the same thing to a lot of people. Lots of people have already-established (i.e., "I can't just go and change this thing I've been RPing for months and months now") reasons to be particularly interested in particular villages, in addition to the various tactical concerns about villages (e.g., need steel?) and already established diplomatic and power-balance things. If you make some villages peaced during influence season and others not, people are still going to have to go influence in the ones they already have reasons to influence, whether it's the flavor of influence they want or not.

Frankly I would like to see village influencing entirely driven by influence, not violence. We have tons of other competitive-quests and other opportunities for PK to be used as a turning point and a strategic element. We don't have any conflicts that are driven by Influence, which is a large part of why Lusternia's unique influence system seems underutilized. Villages seem like the ideal place for that. And I say this despite the fact that my own character is more geared towards fighting than influencing.

But I think Cwin is on to something with the diplomat/soldier thing, though I don't particularly like one element: the idea that the soldiers really only get one thing done that affects the outcome, and that's killing denizens. I have always thought that it's an imbalancing thing that you can completely dead-end influence by simply kicking someone (you don't even have to kill them) and that this doesn't seem to cost you any (the villagers are just as happy to sign on with people who are killing them). Yes, I get the idea of being "ruled by fear" but I think it's imbalancing because the logical opposite things don't work -- they don't seem to notice when you protect them (which is damned hard to do anyway only because there's no MUD command for "step in front of" except the ineffectual WARD emote), and you can't heal them or help them.

So let's run with Cwin's idea. How about if diplomats and soldiers have to work together in pairs (one of each), and if you're a diplomat and someone kills your soldier, you can't influence until you get him back or get a new one?

But as I say, it isn't working. Why do you want this distinction in the first place? It's not even entirely the praying that's an issue. (And no one should have to transcend planar, a 99% non-combat oriented skill, just so that they can take part in combat on any plane where there are no PK rules.) The PK rules are there for a reason, and there's no really valid reason to suggest that they shouldnt' be there off plane JUST because of the skill of conglutination. It doesn't work. Honestly, the whole attitude seems to believe that PK rules are a restriction and there has to be some place free of them. There doesn't. PK rules are only there to allow moderation. Maybe the mechanised nature of it has made people take it for granted that it's "just another obstacle to get around when killing someone" rather than seeing it for what it really is.



I see what you're trying to get at here, but I don't feel it's any better a solution than mine for the reasons I used to respond to your previous post. Also, Maeve is technically a split between the two anyway, so that would tamper with a lot of Seren ideology with no real alternative than "just ignoring her." Makes us wonder why we have Wicca if they don't like us unless we compell them. That sort of thing.

I don' know about Aetolia and Imperian, but the Underworld was PK-free on Achaea. They just made it Astral, and added some useful areas to it.

However, on Achaea, not only were there bashing areas, lots of them, which although they didn't quite compare to the underworld certainly did better than the poor substitutes we have now (except the catacombs, which is obviously DOH), but the Underworld didn't have places with ideological and mechanical ties to the success of any cities. There was no Celestia equivalent, that could drain gold from Shallam and kill their...falcons. (Okay, work with me here.) UW was definitely avoidable. Notice how everywhere ELSE, PK rules applied?

When a place became deeply involved in RP conflict, it was exempted from PK rules - Like Moghedu.

That's -far- more equivalent to the village influencing sessions than anything else. There's a large difference between an occasional event and constant conflict.

Honestly, if we extended pk-rules to Celestia/Nil, no one would ever raid. Ever. And that puts combat right back on prime.

The pk-rules not existing off-plane aren't to say "come pk here!", they're more to keep people from feeling forced to PK on prime. Or so it seems to me.

But in practice it isn't working like this. The mechanised nature of the PK rules is causing people to regard them as just part of killing rather than the moderative constraint they are intended as.

And if power in the long term was given some more lasting use the division could easily be between power-related things offplane, and resource-related things onplane. Something drastic like removing or dramatically lowering power output from villages and making it more Cosm/Ether dependant would rectify the situation, but I'm sure there are better options than that. If the only reason PK is drawn to prime is because...well...it can be, then maybe the problem is a lack of good reasoning to do so other than killing people and causing them the grief and harm certain PKers want to do. Killing an Avatar/Supernal/Demon, for example, is no mean feat, although reactions towards complaints over the ease of this have for some reason been directed into making them harder, which doesn't really solve the problem quite as well as simply stopping this PK-offplane thing.

I still believe angels/cherubs/imps/etc should be viewed as a commodity - if I kill this demon and give it to whomever on Celestia, it should remain as an angel, giving passive power gains to Celest. Should they kill it and give it to a demonlord, Nil keeps it and gains passive power bonus.

It would keep the combat off-plane, at least for a bit.

Making it much like the dwarves and Furrikin, but affecting a different resource and being both harder to defend and to attack. So why does there need to be a difference in PK jurisdiction of it?

Because we're trying to keep combat off-plane?

See, okay. This is Nejii's arguement:

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Straight line. Simple. Blunt. May not be good, but he's trying.

Here's my arguement:

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