Er, as Brona used to tell me, -no- one in Magnagora respected Fain but his followers and that for the most part they refused to do anything he wanted. Razeon was their best buddy. There's more, but I can't remember it. They all blamed Fain for the war with Serenwilde too. That's a great show of support for a divine patron.

Err.. let's just say their orders don't get along. Or did, not sure how it is now.

That's because Brona and half the city at the time were in Raezon's order.

Hi!
I don't know what Brona's on Malicia, but he's on something.
Everyone loves them both in Magnagora, and respects them, and fears them.
I never even heard of this "Noone respects Fain" or whatever.
Also, since we're on this topic on how gods influence some events, I believe Serenwilde and Celest have gods that actively interact with them, Hajamin going up to astral and challenging Magnagorans, Lisaera killing Jadryga 3 times in a row for defending Fain, or Hajamin killing Murphy with his little cute pony DURING village influencing, and crap like that. (There are many more examples I can sight, and I'm sure many others can.)
Now, the most you'll see or hear of either Raezon or Fain is the occasional comment on CT, so far I've only seen Raezon thrice or so on GT, and that to comment or inquire about something.
You might see Fain standing outside an arena, or either of them standing at the Megalith, but even then their demeanor is cool and aloof.
Note: I'm not in either of their respective Order, so I can't say how they interact with their followers in that capacity.

Brona was off, sorry. He never respected any Divine and he loved to brag about how he had had little chats with Terentia, even admitting he openly insulted her all the time during those.

All I can say is that during my time in Raezons order I always repected Fain as well.

Look, you're all hijacking my topic. My main point was to clarify the following questions:

1) Is worldburning from a sanctuaried shrine (which cannot thus be defiled away), using enemy status declared for no reason other than "You were in a village we want to influence" an acceptable and encouraged tactic in Lusternia?

Answer to 1) My understanding is, since Estarra stepped in directly to stop it, this is not considered an acceptable and encouraged tactic.

2) Are the Divine of Lusternia meant to step in directly; e.g. giving direct battle orders or specific actions for their order/city members to take, or are they an Administrative and advisory role only due to the much greater power and knowledge of both the God character and the human being behind it?

Answer to 2) Somewhat less clear. In another thread, Lisaera stated that Elder Gods are "Administrators, not players". But past actions on the part of nearly every Divine call that somewhat into question.

Take your petty arguing over which divine did what during public beta elsewhere.

We have NEVER not respected Fain. Yes, we were not happy about the Mag-Seren war, but never did we lose our respect for him.

Honestly, I find it quite interesting that you all complain about divine intervention when all this while our divines have never directly interfered with our affairs, except to make suggestions (ie. Mag-Seren War). On the other hand, Hajamin, Lisaera, Terentia, Isune, all have been known to personally come down, and do things. I don't think I need to make a list, someone already made a pretty one. Once in a blue moon Fain makes a move, there's an outcry. "LOW! LOW! WHAT KIND OF ADMIN IS HE?!"

And of couse he has a vested interest in Mag's success. What kind of Patron would he be if he didn't?

I was enemied to Hajamin's order during that worldburning thing in Southgard, despite the fact that I did not touch his shrines, at all. So, in effect, I believe he enemied me so he could worldburn me. Simple.

Fain's use of worldburn during influencing is no less legit than using sanc to place people in strategic spots, so others can come and influence, and there is absolutely NO way for us to force them out. You can destroy the shrine, but you can't destroy the sanc. That tactic works too well, but we recognize it's legit. It's also as legit as Narsrim farhealing enemies to remove blindness so they're vulnerable to dazzle. Very, very low and snakey, but very, very legit.

I believe the complaints are because, as Cwin said, it worked too well.

Lisaera killed me repeatedly, because she was taunting Fain about mistaking her for Hajamin, and I defended him by shouting "Perhaps You both look alike." I have yet to understand how that was an insult worthy of what I got, unless she considered Hajamin THAT ugly, she had to kill me for it.

While we're influencing, no less.

Sigh.

The Divine, last I heard, were not to get DEEPLY involved in village conflicts.


THIS DOES NOT MEAN A DIVINE CANNOT GIVE PERMISSION TO HIS ORDERHEAD TO USE HIS SHRINE TO HELP HIS CITY TAKE A VILLAGE. DOES NOT. DOES NOT. NOT, MEANING HE CAN.

God. This thread is irritating me - who has the bigger d:censor:k, or who's been wronged by gods the most - OMG. I beat you all. I mean, Hajamin tricked me into setting all of Nil and a lot of Magnagora on fire. Eat that.

Divine are allowed to interfere directly - it is looked down upon, though. Remember when Terentia, Hajamin, Lacostian, et al used to help us drain Astral Nodes for the shards? That was beyond direct interference, and I'm told they were allowed, but it wasn't exactly welcomed.

I think this thread has gone somewhat off topic. If there are unacceptable levels of interference/modes of interference by Gods they will be dealt with within the administration.

The incident where I temporarily removed the Megalith was a mistake on my part as an administrator, and I have since apologised for it. At the time I let things escalate more than they needed to and it was my fault for allowing myself to be baited by Brona. However, speaking about the incident with Jadryga, it was a personal insult, if you go up to a woman on the street and say they look like a large, muscular man... do you think they'd be pleased? If you insult a God you will be punished in some way or another.

What is acceptable for administrators is constantly being reviewed, so have no fear. Estarra is always watching!

Estarra = Orwell's Big Brother. She doesn't really exist, either - she's just a machination of the Party.

I'm so very glad I had to leave before all of this happened.

After reading all of this nonsense, I think it should be put in the Idiots Section with the "Screw Hajamin" thread, because they're basicly the same. Why can one Divine worldburn to help His/Her city and another can't? That's all Fain was really doing. (And don't give me any of the "we were influencing" crap, cos I don't care enough at the moment.) Serenwilde and Celest had already handed Mag their so I don't really care, because you still got the village and that's all that matters in influencing...

FAIN DIDN'T WORLDBURN. AN ORDERMEMBER DID.

Actually, I never knew what Hajamin looks like, besides being golden.

Don't think I ever actually took a good look at him.

I always had an idea of this golden-skinned effeminate dude with golden curls in a flowing golden robe or something. Kinda like Orlando Bloom, golden version. Orlando Bloom would make a pretty girl.

No offense Hajamin, that's just the image. XD

Muscular... that was my version of Roark. Though the avatar may have had something to do with it.

Sides, Lisaera, you DID taunt Fain, and I was responding to that.

Fain told someone to do it. That's basicly the same as actually doing it himself, cos I don't know of anyone that's gonna tell him, "Nah, Fain, I can't do that right now." (Unless they were from the the city/commune being attacked, but then Fain would probably let them go visit Clotho again.)


and Jad:

If Hajamin looks like Orlando Bloom.. well I'm not even going to finish that sentence, cos you can guess.. it would be a very similar situation from what happened in Achaea...

It's perfectly in character for everyone involve.

And if Hajamin looked like Orlando Bloom, would Shikari look like Captain Sparrow?

Don't say that or I'm moving to Glom...



jeeze.. now you've all got me wondering who the other Divines would be..

Yes, it's in character, provided it's in character for a Divine to get involved in mortal affairs that directly. And if that's true, it's exactly as in-character for Fain to personally lead the charge and kill Serens with his bare hands. And if we allow that kind of thing to be in-character, we're going to have a very boring and empty world before long.

Therefore, it's imperative that it be canon that there's some reason why the gods just don't do that. Why they keep their direct actions against one another and leave us to act as their agents more indirectly. Coming up with reasons for that is trivial to do. It just has to be maintained.

In any case, the fact that sanctuary in a shrine's room prevents defiling but doesn't prevent you starting up a worldburn is clearly a case of "oh, we didn't think of that" -- a misfeature, not a bug, but either way something that needs addressing from a purely mechanical standpoint.

I'm not defending the deed - but I'm simply saying, to these people who are like "OMG NOT RP", that it is, indeed, Fain-worthy.

And all Fain did was say, "Hey, Kaervas. Use a shrine to worldburn 'em." So they did. Viravain said "Yo, Glom, look over there." for Paavik and Shanthmark. Lisaera also did her little ritual, ruining everything Mag was working for.

Seriously. Sh*t happens. Wipe off your shoes and move on.

This thread appears to be descending into flaming and mudthrowing. I don't really see the point of this, Estarra clarified it needed to be looked at, why are people getting all worked up about it still?

And Erion: Take a deep breath, all shall be fine, really, I promise

You're a bard! No one trusts bards! NO ONE!